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#383422 - 01/25/12 01:54 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: whome]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
Freedom of speech does not give you the freedom from the consequences for what you say.

Once again, It's not at all about asking question, the hard questions, but how the message is presented...I will not help in any way, and will counter the perpetuation of myths about survivors.


#383431 - 01/25/12 04:34 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Castle]
lucylives Offline

Registered: 04/07/11
Posts: 367
Hi all,

I just thought I'd chime in here. I missed the original post but I can guess at what it said.

Survivors maybe yu could try to understand the EXTREME pain the effects of your CSA has on the wives whose husband has acted out on them. And spouse/SO can make sure they don't group all the survivors in the same group as some have acted out and some haven't. Again, I haven't read the original post so I am just making a stab.

It appears the word perpetrator was used about a survivor. As a wife whose husband has been acting out, unbeknownst to me, it feels like abuse. My rights have been taken away, my physical safety put at risk, my ability to make good choices on my own behalf have all been taken away as all of this was kept secret from me. I have been lied to, cheated on, made to feel crazy and if it that isn't abusive, I don't know what is. I personally feel my husband has done the exact same things to me that his perpetrators did to him but that is MY husband and MY opinion.

But that isn't all survivors and I think all the wives know that but this is a place to share our feelings openly. It isn't always pretty, it isn';t always fair but it is real.

Maybe when something is triggering or offensive to some people, you can put in subject line "For friends and family only" so as not to offend anyone or just use the private message.

I think there are alot of people suffering on here and we should all try to be supportive of each other.

I am sure I will offend someone here. I will not stereotype all survivors or spouses. These MY opinions regarding MY life with MY husband and not a reflection on any other survivor.

As for the response that said something about coming on here and not feeling able to say the good things and how happy we are with their recovery, I disagree. I have seen posts on here focussing on the good things, things we are grateful for
etc. I am very grateful for all the wonderful things about my husband and I truly believe he is a good man but he is very wounded and I have had to pay the price for his woundedness with his acting out. IT IS VERY PAINFUL!!

#383439 - 01/25/12 07:41 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: lucylives]
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Lucy

Well put

Lets just remind ourselves again what MS states this forum is about

Family and Friends (3 viewing)
This forum is primarily for open discussion among Family and Friends of survivors as well as those male survivors who wish to participate in that discussion.
Moderator: ModTeam, WalkingSouth

If you cant handle what the partners say, stay of the forum, Simple.
If someone is here it is because they care for their partners. We have no right to not believe that.

Heal well

Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#383445 - 01/25/12 08:25 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: whome]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
It's so not that simple.

[Content edited by Modteam.]

Edited by ModTeam (01/26/12 02:02 PM)
Edit Reason: Provoking content removed.

#383447 - 01/25/12 09:37 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Deleted post

Edited by whome (01/25/12 09:38 PM)
Edit Reason: Not worth the effort
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

#383453 - 01/25/12 11:24 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
herowannabe Offline

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
I have been on this board for a few months now and have NEVER seen anyone refer to any survivors as "perpetrators" or "rapists"!

This statement may be in response to a post I made a few months ago, in which I described my husband's sexually acting our against me as "abuse". A survivor hijacked my post and berated me for blanketing all survivors as becoming "abusers" themselves! >.<

I thought my post was pretty clear that I was referring to MY pain regarding MY husband whom I felt had abused ME. However, since my use of the word "abuse" was being taken out of context, I posted an apology for not having made myself clearer. I explained that the abuse I was speaking of was the abuse my husband visited upon me, and that if the reader had not experienced such abuse from his/her survivor, he/she wouldn't likely understand the depth of that devastation as being very abusive, and therefore, my post didn't warrant response.

However, in spite of my apology, a particular reader exacerbated the confusion by continuing to post that I had accused ALL survivors of being abusers! This was a crime to me because survivors who'd not read up to my original post were outraged. Rightfully so, IF I'd have said such a heinous thing. I immediately posted a request that the individual stop perverting what I'd said, and soon the entire topic was removed.

Since that time, I found much help with the PTSD symptoms I was experiencing at In an effort to support the supporters who suffered similar abuses, (as well as survivors who sexually act out), I posted ( POSSIBLE TRIGGER) about the realities of what we suffer due to the sexual acting out against us by our loved ones who are CSA victims, and recommended Within hours I was again attacked by the same individual who attacked me over my "abuse" post. Because the attack was so vile, the entire post was removed. (Don't look now, but attacking another is commonly understood to be abusive!)

To make what seems obvious to me completely clear: NOT ALL SURVIVORS GO ON TO SEXUALLY ABUSE OTHERS.

However, because SOME survivors of CSA are robbed of properly developing/maturing, and can't comprehend love versus intimacy versus sexual relations, they wind up acting out against their partners (drugs, gambling, alcohol, sex, etc.) This is certainly no secret as there are a few really admirable guys (like my own beloved husband) at MS who own the pain they've caused others by their acting out, and have done the hard work of growing up and beyond that child who was so brutally traumatized.

If a survivor accepts that they were abused because of the facts:
* that they suffered at the hands of a sick person,
* that their lives were forever negatively altered by those actions,
* that they were physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually devastated by those actions,
then why would that survivor be so insulted when a supporter accepts that she/he was abused because of those same facts:
* that they suffered at the hands of a sick person,
* that their lives were forever negatively altered by those actions,
* that they were physically, mentally, emotionally and spiritually devastated by those actions???

Definitions of abuse (n)

maltreatment: the physical, psychological, or sexual maltreatment of a person or animal

improper use: the illegal, improper, or harmful use of something

improper practice: an illegal, improper, or harmful practice

Synonyms: mistreatment, cruelty, ill-treatment, violence, maltreatment, neglect, exploitation

1. To use wrongly or improperly; misuse: abuse alcohol; abuse a privilege.
2. To hurt or injure by maltreatment; ill-use.
3. To force sexual activity on; rape or molest.
4. To assail with contemptuous, coarse, or insulting words; revile.
5. To deceive or trick.

1. Improper use or handling; misuse: abuse of authority; drug abuse.
2. Physical maltreatment: spousal abuse.
3. Sexual abuse.
4. An unjust or wrongful practice: a government that commits abuses against its citizens.
5. Insulting or coarse language: verbal abuse.

A well-known saying comes to mind: I can and will be responsible for what I say, but I can not be responsible for how you interpret what I say.

I hope this explanation provides clarification so MS will be a place of support, education and healing for ALL who suffer the affects of CSA- whether we are the direct or indirect victims.

Sending this with compassion and empathy for all who suffer abuse in its many ugly forms-

P.S. To "blow off" another survivor by referring to their thoughts with a "YAWN" speak loudly of one's lack of recovery.


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11

#383456 - 01/25/12 11:49 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
Julia Offline

Registered: 11/05/08
Posts: 76

What she said!


#383474 - 01/26/12 03:12 AM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Julia]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
PS..I.dispute the story as you have laid it out...with that, we will never see eye to eye, I'm very good with that.

You dont know ANYTHING about my recovery or story...About who or what I am about.

I have never blown off a survivor who needed to talk about csa, even and especially when our views are different...I have put in hundreds of real time hours, actively helping survivors, some spouses and SOs and being helped by them in return.

I'll just end there knowing my fingers are on fire, and where I could go.



#383479 - 01/26/12 03:45 AM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Castle]
GoodHope Offline

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 428
I think this post is interesting not just for nitty gritty stuff--words used and how others interpret those, but for me, it also represents the dilemma I face in my own life. Where is my place in my survivor's life? Having said that. Where is the supporter's place on the survivor's board?

And to take it a step further. Here on the board, how do supporters get the support they need in ALL stages of the journey? In my own life, my husband through his actions has mistreated me, endangered my reproductive health, deceived me and caused me psychological and spiritual harm. I have chosen to forgive and at his request, have opted to stay in the marriage to support him and his healing.

But I'm still broken by the above mentioned behaviors. Male Survivor is beginning to feel like home in all the good and BAD ways. Like at home, I'm not allowed to speak to all the ways in which I am wounded directly to my spouse. It makes him feel unsafe and withdraw. I thought here was safe but now I'm not sure. If a partner can't share her(his) honest, raw, feelings for fear of offending someone to whom the post doesn't apply (if you don't act out or you have no spouse/partner whom your acting out affects, it doesn't apply to you). It may not even apply to you if you are fortunate enough to have a spouse who didn't feel mistreated, deceived, etc. I am envious and still happy for you if that is your story.

But Hero's post laid out in a way that I fully related to her raw pain, and reading it transported me to just months before when that anger and agony met up and had a raucous party in my own soul. And she needed to know that her feelings were valid (because even if you hate her choice of words, her feelings are valid).

I don't want to get dragged into "that post" but I read every single reply that was there (I don't know if individual posts were yanked but before the whole thread got yanked, I read it). And while I understood the outrage at the word choice, I felt it was clear that the de>
Wife of a survivor

#383504 - 01/26/12 12:03 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: GoodHope]
Dar Offline

Registered: 11/15/11
Posts: 170
Loc: Missouri
I know I said that I was done with MS because of the hate I felt that was being thrown at me for my religous beliefs. BUT I just couldn't stay away from this site. I have learned so much from so many good people here trying to heal along with me.

The pain and suffering doesn't stop with just the men survivor's here that are married or have S/O's.
THE Supporter's hurt and pain, that some of us have thrown at our supporters, are real.

Did they go through what we did? Maybe not Physically but Mentally they are now so to speak. They are our partners in life and feel and see our pain, which we have thrown them into Unwillingly. But yet, they still stand beside us and in doing so have put their heart and soul on the line also so we can heal.

Is F&F an important part of MS? HELL YES IT IS!!!

Survivors can learn from our supporters here on MS. We can see their thought's and fears of what we might be doing to them or might be considering doing to them.
There is to much pain that our abusers have placed upon us and now our wifes, family and friends too.

Too many times I have seen people who are hurting here on F&F say what is on their hearts and are simply looking for a little hope, compassion and understanding be thrown under the bus by some others who don't or may not understand what they are going through or what they are trying to say. If you are not a supporter how would you know in your heart what they feel.
Just like how does a supporter know what really goes on in a survivors mind.

We all are here to learn and heal, to become better, to rejoin a life that was taken from us so many years ago.
Like survivors, our supporters want their life back too.

Supporters need our help to assist their S/O to become human again. Helping is not by stepping on them for a remark or a miss worded sentance, just isn't what they need. Crude, hurtful and sassy remarks only make everyone feel worse.

I have been drawn into a couple of disagreements here on MS, BUT it was a disagreement with other suvivors trying to show their point of view that I may or may not agree with. But I am a survivor just like them and I/they have every right to say what they feel needs said to each other. Suvivors are all in the same boat together guys, our wifes, friend and family are not, They are holding on to the sides of the boat trying not to be Drowned by some of our actions.

Please try to understnd that sometimes thing are better off not being said if it is going to hurt others. Words are a powerful and once said can't be taken back even if you Apologize later.

I for one, will do my best to be more Sympathetic and chose my words with more respect to others.
A little sugar in your words taste's a hell of a lot better than vinegar.

God Bless

All I ever wanted was a hug.

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