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#382821 - 01/19/12 12:32 PM Understanding F & F Forum Purpose?
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Quote:
[/quote]
Family and Friends



This forum is primarily for open discussion among Family and Friends of survivors as well as those male survivors who wish to participate in that discussion.[quote]



Yes or No?
Discussion does not equal Attack, correct?

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#382846 - 01/19/12 02:46 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 428
Reluctant to chime in because I am privy to at least some of the history but here is my opinion...there should be respect on both sides and everyone needs to be clear on what they want. So of supporters want input from survivors it is incumbent on us to present information truthfully but not in an inflammatory way. HWB some words are fuel for some survivors. Everyone here is hurting--everyone, supporters, survivors. We can't tip tie around every possible and perceived slight but we don't have to stomp up and down on toes either. I share your sentiments, I have felt the hurt and anger and frustration and betrayal u have expressed. Survivors need to know it exists because if their spouses are like me and the other CSA wives I interact with, it's fonna come up BUT the goal is healing and always should be. There are words I use in private conversations (on chat and pm) that I make A conscious choice not to use on the board. This board, much like my physical home, needs to be a safe place for me and. MY husband. I walk the same balance at home--how not to stifle my raw, honest feelings but not create a hostile environment where we can't heal together. My solution is to PM several women on the board. We vent, rage, cry ,cuss, uplift, support, laugh. On the board I try to be helpful, thoughtful etc.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#382868 - 01/19/12 05:34 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: GoodHope]
herowannabe Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/01/11
Posts: 386
Loc: USA
Hi GoodHope!

Exactly! The board must be a safe place for everyone who is invited to participate: survivors and supporters.

The majority of all MS board members are here looking for help and support caused by the traumatic aftermath of CSA- in all its many manifestations. Hopefully, the help and support we receive helps us (survivors and supporters) heal so we can in turn become healers for others.

I absolutely understand why many users would go "underground" with chat and PMs, but I wonder how many are missing out on the benefit of those "underground" conversations and interactions, assuming they are appropriate?

I just want to understand the purpose of the F & F forum. If it is truly "primarily for the family and friends of survivors", and the majority of us are wives, of whom a healthy portion have been traumatized by their survivor's acting out, then supporters need to be shown the same respect as survivors are due. The expression of our trauma, which must be resolved if we are to be of help to our beloved survivors, will often be just as ugly to read as are the survivor's posts. But, like the survivors' posts, ours must be open and honest, too, or no progress can be made. If supporters serve only the purpose of sprinkling rainbows and sunshine, then how do we learn and heal and go on to be true supporters of the one who is in the most pain: the survivor???

If I've misunderstood the purpose of the forum, then as a non-survivor, female, Christian, wife of a survivor, I really don't have a purpose for being here other than to be a cheerleader and/or a punching bag for another's anger and frustrations.

Anyway, we're all in this together, even though we'd have preferred this cup pass us by!

Sending out the peace that I can't communicate in type, but that I wish for all-

herowannabe

_________________________


For I know the plans I have made for you. Plans to give you a future and a hope. Jeremiah 29:11


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#382882 - 01/19/12 08:04 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
GoodHope Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/05/11
Posts: 428
I get it. My posts have not been all sunshine and rainbows cause this CSA stuff SUCKS and whether your survivor acts out or acts in, if it's your spouse you are negatively impacted. The hardest part for me is getting the support I need while I'm busy supporting him. CSA is NOT a reason to act out so making peace with the fact that CSA is probably why he did it without excusing it is an exhausting exercise. Furthermore, forgiving my husband who has wounded me to my very core is a daily struggle/exercise. Having a safe place to hash that out has been paramount to the I credential progress I've made. I am honest on this board and I've been attacked for expressing that but I always reply respectfully and stand my ground--this is how I feel, this is how I see it, etc. I choose my words very carefully so that they reflect my true feelings while not making a crappy situation worse. On a board like this though, so many people have family of origin issues, self esteem issues, addiction issues, you name it, it's here. Certain realities hit buttons and when we are attacked, or even if a survivor feels attacked, we have to back up and realize that we don't know MOST of what they have been/are going through. I don't take most of the things personally for that reason.

The books I've read for supporters stunk because they talked about how to help your survivor with no mention of how to do it while you are reeling. Im an even keeled, easy going, hard to ruffle kind of person (Vulcan like is how I've been described)--this messed me up. Muddled my thinking, clouded my judgment, altered my sense of self...u get the picture.

I get the feeling some survivors are upset, yea triggered, by the idea that we be altered (forever so) by the side effects of their CSA. It doesn't mean we don't love our spouse or that we don't want to stick it out and help him heal. But to pretend we don't hurt is CrAZY and counter productive to The healing of the union. It is so much I see why people split up. My husband has to work on cSA, porn addiction, himself, we've for to work on trust and intimacy as a couple, I've got to work on trust , forgiveness for betrayal as an individual, meanwhile we've got small children, a business, I have my own career and all that entails. It's a lot to navigate and boards like this filled with peole who understand are a lifeline.

_________________________
Wife of a survivor

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#382947 - 01/20/12 01:47 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: herowannabe]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Correct
I find certain Members a little to opinionated and a little quick to attack if your question does not conform to their idea of "right"

I also think that we should be bold enough to tell em to Piss Off.

Sorry but I don't like the new direction that certain people are taking. The compassion and caring are disappearing.

Heal well all
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#383101 - 01/22/12 12:39 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: whome]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
I'm sorry if anyone feels attacked here-I welcome the family and friends to MS and hope they find support and understanding. I also realize many of them have been wounded by partners who suffered SA and that their pain and anger are real.

We are all Very wounded - I personally have seen the damage and destruction I did to the sweet girl who had so many hopes and dreams for our marriage. It pains me to see partners alone here without a significant other who is facing his abuse and getting help or even has stopped acting out with dishonesty, undermining finances, infidelity and depression. Because that was me and how I acted around my wife, the mother of two young children at the time. I was so lost, so in crisis, it was terrifying for my wife.

Today things are much different-thanks to a lot of support, T's, and friends. There are TONs of resources, books, articles and websites out there. I cannot solely rely on MS for my recovery. In particularl 12 step programs and fellowship have guided me-that's why I strongly recommend al-anon for family of survivors.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#383221 - 01/23/12 09:37 AM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
As straight forward as possible, some language and terms have been used here that has been disrespectful to male survivors. It pretty clear and there have been several threads locked and disposed of because of line pushing and disrespect.

I will go so far as to say that a portion of SO/Wifes DO NOT come here because its not safe to say things are going well and how happy some partners can be working through recovery.

From my personal view on this site over the last couple of years I can tell you that a significant portion of hurt, in F&F come from survivors sexualy acting out in their marriages/relationships. However, this is not all survivors and I would say most of the survivors I know have not acted in this regard...but it does happen for sure...its painful, hurts and effects relationships/health.

Most of the issue is syntax, language and disrespect...and I know for a fact that many, survivors and spouses, are missing out on the good messages from some that hold back.

I would always add ...how would think a husband would be percieved and accepted at a site for female abuse survivors with similar issues but the genders changed. If a female abuse survivor acted out against thier husband and then a husband came on the site and said they feel than any wife that does that is a perpetrator and rapist. Guarantee the responses would not be pleasant.

Accept F&F for what it is a small part of a Male based survivor website...a place that many hold in a special regard because there are such few places for men to deal with these issues...Attacking survivors here, even with a "disclosure" of this only applies to X group, is never gonna work out, you will always face resistence...there are some who are here and who have passed through MS who feel/felt F&F should not exist but it does, and I've seen it help..and I've made some really good connections because of it....but I've also seen it used as a way to vent hurt at the wrong people.

the "ebbs and flows" of this site, the views of some in regards to relationships and such dont, in my opinion, represent the real number of really good relationships out there...Sure it takes work, lots of hard work and time and compramise on both sides, but I know too many survivors who are realy working on their relationships, love their spouses and are starting to be in a good way...I also am married and know that my wife while not a CSA survivor brought her own baggage into our marriage...that is life and relationships...I can also gaurantee that in these unhealthy relationships ppresented here, the wife is not completly free of adding to issues or bringing her own stuff in.......Relationships and healthy marriage are possible and should be encouraged to survivors...IT IS POSSIBLE TO BE A SURVIOR AND BE HAPPILY MARRIED. Thankfully, I believe that working through CSA and recovery can help a marriage and help both spouses to work on the issues they bring into marriage.

I can be emotional, but always real and I'm ok with being opinionated, especially when some men tell me they agree but dont feel that they are able to communicate what I'm willing to put out there. I've yet to hear from a mod/admin about a post. So yea, I personally have a problem with using the term perpetrator in regards to a husband who has acted out sexually...and I also have a problem, and a bigger one, when its used on purpose, to push buttons, even after some on MALE SURVIVOR, who are MALE SURVIVORS express their concern. among other things.

_________________________
.

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#383249 - 01/23/12 05:20 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Castle]
Marie-TwoOfUs Offline


Registered: 12/30/11
Posts: 8
Loc: USA
I normally try to stay out of threads like this, on ANY forum.
This one bothers me, though.
Plain and simple - F&F is a COURTESY extended to the partners/spouses/mates of their survivors.
MS was certainly not REQUIRED to allow us this space.

Posts in here should be written always with respect of EVERYONE in mind.
Not just yourself or your partner/spouse/mate.
EVERYONE.

I am very careful of what I say, do, ask, etc in here for this reason.
There is SO MUCH wisdom to be had here.
Even just in this folder.
I have learned SO MUCH just from reading!!
From reading the posts made by supporters.
From reading the responses made by the gentlemen who choose to participate in the F&F folder.

Treat everyone as you yourself would wish to be treated and there should not be any issues!
Think before speaking, and there should not be any issues!
Sometimes try to put yourselves in their shoes, and there should not be any issues!

Those three sentances are key in how I approach anything I do.
But especially on MS, where there are so many people in so many different stages of healing.

*sigh* Threads like this, especially in the F&F forum.
Sadden me a great deal.
EVERYONE is here on MS for support.
That includes the men, AND their mates/partners/spouses.
There is SO much to be learned through F&F on the supporters' side of things.
Not to mention the oppurtunity that it provides US, AS supporters!
To connect with others in our shoes.
It is a sort of support group within a support group.
An odd hierarchy that in most places does NOT work.
It works here.
It can continue to work here.

That's all I'm going to say.
I wish threads like this were not neccessary.
It damages the support network so badly.
I know I myself have kept VERY quiet in this folder due to some of this.
I am skittish myself, particularly due to being a co-survivor myself with my bro here.
When the "volume" in a thread gets "loud."
Or the "tone" in a thread gets shotgun-angry.
I back off.
I stay away.
I'm probably not the only one.
Think about that.

Thanks.

*Marie*


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#383365 - 01/24/12 03:12 PM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Marie-TwoOfUs]
Airmid Offline


Registered: 12/02/11
Posts: 95
Loc: South
Castle: thank you. I couldn't find words even close to how you expressed it.

I believe in safety and accountability, as as partners, we owe it to ourselves and our relationships and our loved survivors to take a long extensive look at ourselves. How do we interact, enable, stand firm and keep boundaries, express our rage and anger appropriately, learn that expressing joy is more than okay, and grow on our own, resolving our own FOO issues? That's important stuff (for me) to look at and address directly. just because I'm married to a survivor doesn't make "it all" his problem or fault, although I have and continue to expect him to be accountable for acting out, or acting in.

I also expect and appreciate the fact that accountability is a must here on the F&F forum. The main reason I joined it was after reading hundreds of pages of posts from survivors who had no qualms about stressing the necessity of accountability and the responsibility we each have for our own recoveries. I can't do it for Hubs, and he cannot recover for me, nor should we expect that. The best I can do is to not only support him, but grow, no matter what his pace of recovery is.

Best advice I've ever been given from a survivor when I asked how to not hinder Hubs' recovery while I was hurting badly as a result of his actions:
Do what I can to not cause suffering, and if I can't do that, to at least not do harm. If I'm not sure, just sit still.


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#383419 - 01/25/12 07:58 AM Re: Understanding F & F Forum Purpose? [Re: Airmid]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
If Hurt people cant come here and ask questions or express opinions, then what is the forum for.
People don't, as a rule come to MS and attack survivors, they may be speaking out of anger because of their pain.
That does however not give anybody the right to attack the poster. Nobody should ever leave this forum, not survivors nor their partners. If someone leaves that means that there is one more person that is not being helped, and trust me there are enough of those.

THERE IS NO RIGHT OR WRONG ON THIS FORUM. there are only feelings, and a lot of those are hurt.

So lets all exercise a little love patience and understanding, and lets accept that all the people that are on this forum, REALLY NEED TO BE ON THIS FORUM.

It is for the betterment of the survivors life.

Heal well all
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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