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#379373 - 12/13/11 11:29 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Magellan]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
D,

You are dead on in nearly everything in this whole post. I am definitely angry and hurt that I got a raw deal in life, while most people seemingly have things so good. As I said before, my abusers had things much better off than me. They had jobs, families and a good life in comparison to mine. For some people, things seem so easy, but everything is overwhelming to me.

This was more helpful to me than you can possibly know. The part about not having that guiding compass is significant. I was never given the appropriate affirmation that I could do it from my father, then when the perp gave me that affirmation, it was nullified by the fact that he only did it to get sex from me.

Thanks for this post. Good and helpful stuff.


Originally Posted By: Magellan

Living 50 years like that has to be quite a challenge. And yet you did. Sure, things are imperfect. You're unable to hold down a job. You're angry about that, and you feel like you're at fault.

But is it your fault (your failure?) if you grew up without a compass that most people take for granted?


_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#379450 - 12/14/11 03:46 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Undefeated]
Magellan Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/10
Posts: 1566
Loc: California
You're very welcome. I'm glad that you're here opening up and sharing. I'm learning a little bit about myself by reading your posts.

D


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#379465 - 12/14/11 05:32 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Magellan]
AndrewT Offline


Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
I certainly spent the majority of my life with self defeating behaviors and attitudes and burying myself in shame and medicating my feelings with my sex addiction. I ruined a marriage, split up my family and put my health at serious risk.

I have spent the last 2 years in counseling and 12 step support groups to sort all this out and am just starting to make good progress in feeling better about myself and really turning over a new leaf in becoming a new healthy, wholesome person.

The book that REALLY helped me was Healing the Shame that Binds You by John Bradshaw. It really helped me recognize a lot of my toxic shame that was leading to my self defeating behaviors and has a lot of great tools on bringing that out in the open and healing it. Highly recommended.

I have just started to dig into the CSA side of my recovery and Victims No Longer is my first recovery book of 2012. I am really looking forward to understanding more about my early CSA experience has affected me and finding recovery and healing from it like I did my toxic shame this year.





Edited by AndrewT (12/14/11 05:32 PM)
_________________________
I will be patient with myself and let myself heal from my abuse according Gods plan and not my own.

“You can get the child out of abuse, but getting the abuse out of the child is a different ball game.”

My story: http://tinyurl.com/AndrewTStory

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#379467 - 12/14/11 05:43 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: AndrewT]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
There are many things that haunt us: the abuse, shaming by our parents, poor decisions, fear,.....

I hear how the words of your father have haunted you, undefeated, I've had similar issues about not allowing myself to be successful because of old messages that seemed crushing at the time.

I also know that beyond the reading and counseling, the one thing that works best for me is to take the next action and step outside my comfort zone in small, manageable ways. Even if it is working out and exercising on a daily basis, that helps me to build a track record in one area of my life.

AndrewT: congrats on making progress in NOT medicating yourself with sex addiction: 12 step support saved my life and helped me salvage the past decade from complete collapse.

"Live another day, climb a little higher" is one of my favorite aphorisms used by a brother here on MS.

And here is a [url= http://www.marcandangel.com/2011/12/11/30-things-to-stop-doing-to-yourself/]30 Things[/url] link I was forwarded today that I want to share here with you guys:

[url= http://www.marcandangel.com/2011/12/11/30-things-to-stop-doing-to-yourself/]30 Things to Stop Doing to Yourself[/url]

My challenge to you would be to write this out in the positive affirming language of things to START doing and see how that fits.

With you as we climb this mountain...


Jamie



Edited by Mountainous Buck (12/14/11 05:44 PM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#379476 - 12/14/11 07:26 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Magellan]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Originally Posted By: Magellan
You're very welcome. I'm glad that you're here opening up and sharing. I'm learning a little bit about myself by reading your posts.

D

Thanks D! I appreciate all your sharing as well. You have been a big help to me already. I suppose what you and everyone else here learns from me, is what not to do. grin

_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#379480 - 12/14/11 07:40 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: AndrewT]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Hi Andrew!

Oh, sex addiction. I wish I could claim that I know nothing about that, but... blush
I never acted out, until I turned 50. Someone said something very hurtful, demeaning and insulting to me, and that was the trigger for me acting out. The hurtful comment was very similar to hurtful things my father told me, so you can guess how that affected me. Even the sexual acting out was a form of self-loathing and self-sabotaging.

I know 12-step programs work for a lot of people, but when I went to one (Celebrate Recovery), the constant beating ourselves up over past failures made me even worse. It's good to get it out and in the open, but there is a time to move on. One guy in the 12-step program I was in, even spent several days secluded in a cabin, and all he did was to journal his past failures. That is like beating ourselves up, over and over again.

Thanks for mentioning the Bradshaw book. Did Bradshaw work with Dr. Henry Cloud and Dr. John Townsend? His name sounds familiar and I am wondering if he was in a video I saw a couple years back with Cloud and Townsend.

_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#379486 - 12/14/11 08:03 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Jamie,

Thank you for the advice on stepping outside our comfort zone in small, manageable ways.

This link you recommended is excellent:
http://www.marcandangel.com/2011/12/11/30-things-to-stop-doing-to-yourself/

While there, I found this related post helpful too:
http://www.marcandangel.com/2011/07/24/20-things-to-stop-doing-to-others/

Thanks again for all your encouragement!

_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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#379544 - 12/15/11 05:51 AM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Undefeated]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
Thanks Undefeated!

Another great link!

I hadn't looked at the rest of the site until you mentioned it:

I found " 18 Things I wish someone would have told me when I was 18" to be pretty cool as well.

The first two things: "Commit yourself to making lots of mistakes" and "Find hard work you love doing" hit home especially!

I'm sorry you had a bad experience with CR-I've only heard of them and frankly have always been suspicious of how well religious organizations can adopt the 12 step approach.

For me, the 12-step group Sex Addicts Anonymous (SAA) has been a lifesaver-especially with providing a safe and nurturing support for me to openly face my demons "root and branch" so to speak and fully admit my problems so that I can move BEYOND them towards building healthy relationships with self, God, and others.

Being around others with the same struggles who are free to talk about these subjects is key for safety for me: I'm not sure if the people in CR are coming from a mutual position of suffering from broken sexuality or not. I cannot imagine someone who hasn't experienced this kind of brokenness being able to help me in this very fundamental, core way.

James 5:16 talks about admitting your faults to your brothers-that is the key to success for me. But finding brothers who can hear this and help is what makes this so effective for me.

It is not berating or beating me up about the past for me to practice the original Step One-which is to "Admit" my powerlessness and unmanagability. As I've been shown in SAA, this is best done as a written, thorough review and owning of all my sexual acting out issues. It is not about shaming, it is about breaking free of the shame and isolation that keep me small and stuck. Otherwise, all that stuff STAYS in my head and has WAY to much power and toxicity for me to move forward.

When I share here at MS about "not keeping secrets", I mean more than the secrecy around my abuse: more often, what has kept me from healing and real recovery has been the secrecy around the things I have chosen to do or not do as a man. Decisions that I own and cannot lay at the foot of my abusers.

That's one of the reasons I like MS so well-these forums are a place to start to share our problems and get clarity around our lives. Limited as these electronic byte-laden messages might be, they are a vital breakthrough for many of us to openly share - our pain, our struggles, and our fears as well as our success, our recovery, and our progress.

As my favorite recovery book says
Quote:
Yes, there is a long period of reconstruction ahead. We must take the lead. A remorseful mumbling that we are sorry won't fill the bill at all.


The same book, the original forumulator of the 12 Steps 72 years ago, also promises me
Quote:
"If we are painstaking about this phase of our development, we will be amazed before we are half way through. We are going to know a new freedom and a new happiness. We will not regret the past nor wish to shut the door on it. We will comprehend the word serenity and we will know peace. No matter how far down the scale we have gone, we will see how our experience can benefit others. That feeling of uselessness and self-pity will disappear. We will lose interest in selfish things and gain interest in our fellows. Self-seeking will slip away. Our whole attitude and outlook upon life will change. Fear of people and of economic insecurity will leave us. We will intuitively know how to handle situations which used to baffle us. We will suddenly realize that God is doing for us what we could not do for ourselves."


_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#379577 - 12/15/11 12:27 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: Undefeated]
AndrewT Offline


Registered: 09/12/11
Posts: 25
Loc: Seattle, WA
Not sure if Bradshaw worked with Townsend and Cloud. Its very likely since they seem to all be working in the same areas of boundaries and relationships.

Sorry to hear CR didnt work for you. Step 1 in SAA is very painful and involves writing and sharing your history with all of its ups and downs in great details. I can see how it might be perceived as beating yourself up but it is a necessary part of admitting our powerlessness and giving up control to our higher power. Perhaps that what your buddy was doing on his trip to a cabin. My experience with 12 step and therapy is that it is like healing a physical wound that is infected and not healed...it gets worse before it gets better. You need to clean it out and learn how to dress it properly and take care of it before it can begin to really heal. By sharing our stories and releasing our shame we are healing our inner wounds and that gives us the opportunity to stop continuing to make a mess of things, address the wreckage of our past, and begin a new life for ourselves. We cant change what we did but we can absolutely not let it define who we are and we can be different going forward. Sometimes the first few months in 12 step can seem self defeating while you are still in the process of cleaning out the wound and doing the hard self scrutiny and sharing but if you dont give up, keep going back, and work through it you come out to a brighter place that is well worth everything you have to do to get there.

Stay strong brother. MS is a fabulous place to share and learn new things about ourselves with a safe, loving community and I am really looking forward to leaning on you guys as I dig into the unresolved CSA issues of my past in 2012.

_________________________
I will be patient with myself and let myself heal from my abuse according Gods plan and not my own.

“You can get the child out of abuse, but getting the abuse out of the child is a different ball game.”

My story: http://tinyurl.com/AndrewTStory

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#379579 - 12/15/11 12:54 PM Re: Self-Sabotage as a result of CSA [Re: AndrewT]
Undefeated Offline


Registered: 12/12/11
Posts: 175
Loc: Colorado, USA
Andrew and Jamie,

Thanks for all the excellent info. on recovery. I appreciate all the advice and recommendations.

As for C.R., I don't disagree with the 12 steps at all. It's just a matter that there is a continual revisiting of our own personal failures. I believe step one is vital; However, being a Christian, I agree with the Apostle Paul that after we have confessed our sins to God and admitted them to brothers, there is a time to get our eyes back on the prizes and goal. Jesus Christ is the new creation life of the believer and we need to abide in Him and fix our sights on Him, for He Himself is our empowerment to have victory.
Quote:

Brethren, I do not count myself to have apprehended; but one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind and reaching forward to those things which are ahead, I press toward the goal for the prize of the upward call of God in Christ Jesus.
(Philippians 3:13-14 NKJV)


Paul uses an example of running a race. A runner has to look ahead to the finish line and prize, not keep looking back at when he stumbled.

A friend of mine gave an example of taking out the trash. As he said, our sins are the trash. When we confess them, it's like taking out the trash. When we keep going over the sins again and again, after confessing them, it's like we go back to the trash can, remove the bag of trash, then bring it back in the house, scatter the trash all over the living room floor and examine it in detail, piece by piece. I need to leave my trash out in the trash can, or I will dwell on my old sinful nature, feel like a loser and continue the self-defeating and sinful behavior.

Thanks again guys. You are helping me more than you know.



Edited by Undefeated (12/15/11 01:00 PM)
Edit Reason: Fixed mistakes and added to the post.
_________________________
"The sexual abuse and exploitation of children is one of the most vicious crimes conceivable, a violation of mankind's most basic duty to protect the innocent." ~James T. Walsh

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