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#378822 - 12/09/11 05:18 PM Square 1.1
unhappycamper Offline

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 754
Loc: VA
Square 1.1 is Square 1 minus the optimism. Here's what I've learned in the past 17 years: I'll never have justice or even revenge. I'll never have acknowledgment or even corroboration. That much I knew at the start, but I've learned that I've got to have at least one of those things before I can get past the terrifying anger and other bad feelings. What to do? At this rate, I doubt I can live long enough to get to Square 1.2.


#378827 - 12/09/11 06:14 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: unhappycamper]
Fissy Tsickens Offline

Registered: 09/24/08
Posts: 466
Loc: Bassett, Virginia

Hi, John. I'm at a low spot myself right now, seemingly making no progress, my wife very tired of the situation. I wish I had an answer or some great advice for you, but, unfortunately, I don't. Just want you to know that other guys here care about you and your situation, understand your anger and frustration, and are pulling for you. Hang in, there.



Wish that I could cry
Fall upon my knees
Find a way to lie
About a home Iíll never see

It may sound absurd...but donít be naive
Even heroes have the right to bleed
I may be disturbed...but wonít you concede
Even heroes have the right to dream
Itís not easy to be me

#378831 - 12/09/11 06:50 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: Fissy Tsickens]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
What is justice to all this?

May I ask if being believed will help you, when an acknowledgment and/or corroborations is not available...I know something about this.

I hear and believe you, many others too.


#378834 - 12/09/11 07:44 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: Castle]
unhappycamper Offline

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 754
Loc: VA
All I have is a story and some symptoms--I've never asked anyone to believe the story, and all these doctors and counselors can do is try to relieve the symptoms. I want some evidence that doesn't require belief.

At this point, "justice" would be knowing the perp paid some extremely high price for what he did to us kids.


#378836 - 12/09/11 08:26 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: unhappycamper]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 2615
Loc: Central PA
Hey John,

I feel I can relate to your situation a little.

I won't get any of that either. All my perps were minors, so some people won't even let me call that abuse, and certainly there is no legal standing I can take.

I won't get anything more than what I have now. A story and and some symptoms.

It hurts. I find at times I envy those who can get justice and barring that those that have someone to sue the hell out of.

I don't have any of that.

Justice or Revenge if ever found, won't actually change anything in regards to the pain or symptoms.

We can work through our main, we can heal from the damage, even if nothing else can come about in regards to the perpetrator.

Easy? NO not in the least.

But still possible.

#378837 - 12/09/11 08:53 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: JustScott]
cris40ky Offline

Registered: 06/20/11
Posts: 188
Loc: KY, US
Justice or corroboration.

The priest perp, that came later, after confronted through channels actually admitted he abused me. Justice?? It didn't feel like it. I was actually more depressed after that because, as JustScott said, it does absolutely nothing to take away the pain. But there was something, I guess, just in having him admit it. Though, I was believed from the start.

What I am going through now, is much earlier abuse. As you know, you have commented with me before, about remembering. And the lack of it. And I'm with you on that one. It's hard to deal when there is no clear concept of a sequence of events. It's like it's not even true to me and the symptoms are just there. The lil kid in me that was abused does not want to hear any professional say "just focus on the symptoms" because he feels cheated. Disbelieved. Angry.

It sounds from your earlier sharing that you do have some clear images from your past. And I have two that have come up for me. One much later confirmed by my cousin is the most clear, but still hard for me to really accept. I want more. Lil me wants more recognition. And I'm the only one that can give it to him. It feels week that way. It feeds into the desire of others to minimize what happened. And feeds into my desire to avoid it as well. It has been really hard for me to see that in myself. That I am part of the voices that tell lil me it really didn't happen, get over it.

But the truth is flat out we have enough memory to know. Accepting isn't easy on more levels than one. And there is no real justice that can be inflicted on these people that could measure up.

#378839 - 12/09/11 09:15 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: cris40ky]
unhappycamper Offline

Registered: 10/21/11
Posts: 754
Loc: VA
Originally Posted By: cris40ky
And there is no real justice that can be inflicted on these people that could measure up.

Oh, I dunno... I'd settle for hearing that he got shanked in prison. I'm not using the term "justice" in any cosmic sense.

And I agree, I've probably doubted my "story" more than anyone else who's heard it. Who would WANT such a thing in his life? But after 52 years, I'm afraid to take my eyes off it--distraction is the "coping strategy" that nearly killed me when it finally failed 17 years ago. Once it fails, it's gone for good.


#378844 - 12/09/11 09:41 PM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: unhappycamper]
Sailor John Offline

Registered: 10/04/11
Posts: 310
Loc: Newfoundland & Labrador
Hi unhappycamper,

I also have had all my known perps die, including my sperm provider. All I would have liked to hear from them is why they did it especially one to his own son. It ruined my life, like many, many others.

I've had vivid pictures ever since I realized (about 25 years ago) that I was abused. I've found that over a longggg time things will become a bit clearer - you get the feeling that "Hey, what's going on. That happened before / after this."

I still have trouble getting some things in order after and as I said, that's after about 24 years of self treatment and about 6 or 7 months of therapy.

Don't give up. Things will get better

I will mourn the teenager I never was and strive to make that dot of light way out in the far reaches of the end of the tunnel turn into a bright sun.


#378865 - 12/10/11 01:38 AM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: Sailor John]
kb8715 Offline

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 811
First of all John from chat and through our private messages I know the very good man you are. For me Justice starts by seeing we never let the bastards get the best in us.

Second, there is some justice knowing the bastards rots in hell.

Third I think comes from watching men here heal. Even better is to help a man here heal. In my case I know I don't need all the support I did not too long ago. But I feel closure and a real sense of happiness even when I feel I helped another survivor find some peace. A few here are like family to me. They give so much in return. My wife asks how they are even. That's what helps me a lot.

You deserve it John. You're just a good man.


"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my son's senior year HS Yearbook.

#425238 - 02/14/13 04:37 AM Re: Square 1.1 [Re: unhappycamper]
Jacob S Offline

Registered: 01/01/13
Posts: 691
Loc: where the shadows lie
I know this is old and so I hope no one minds me bumping it but oh how it relates to me. What I wouldn't give for a little corroboration. So many people wouldn't even understand if I told them the details, because they don't understand how a kid just a little older can so completely dominate. And there goes my stomach . . .
I am a veteran of the soul wars.

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