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#377305 - 11/29/11 12:47 PM Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<)
Chase Eric Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2379
I originally posted this in the adult survivor's section but I think it fits more appropriately here...

I have done a lot of work a few years back coming to terms with being one of several victims of a serial molester who was caught. It came within a hair's breadth of going to court and was pretty traumatic.

That was when I was 12. I assumed I might be gay but wasn't really sure, and moved to the other coast (USA) to essentially "discover" myself. I dated girls AND guys. One of my very first sexual experiences with a man (outside the crap I dealt with as a little boy) was particularly unpleasant. I walked away from it blaming myself for being stupid enough to get in such a situation, and hated the jerk who did it. As much as I hated him, I blamed myself.

My question Could the male-on-male rape of a GAY victim hold dynamics of trauma fundamentally different than those of a HETEROSEXUAL victim? If I identified myself as straight, would I have better seen the episode for what it was - a rape instead of a "bad date"? Being gay, I think I addressed myself with the same line many lay people would have put on me: I must have asked for it.


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#377375 - 11/29/11 11:16 PM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Chase Eric]
Chgocub83 Offline


Registered: 11/26/11
Posts: 2
Loc: Chicago, IL
Hi Chase

I've dealt with this in a simular mannor. When me and my partner did certain things, it was unpleasant and I "bit the bullet" so to speak. It continued for over 4 years, and untilmately I wanted to appease my partner, but what I didn't realize is what I didn't like and was unpleasant was suppressed memories of when I was molested by my father.

When I told this to my partner, he was more than understanding as to not do a specific thing while we were having sex.

The funny thing about our brains, when we don't remember things, we still have emotional rememberance of things.

Gay or straight, if you were molested as a child, there are triggers you have and you need to figure them out, and surpress them.

Ultimately the basis to this all is, you were molested as a kid, and gay or straight you are having issues that need to be worked on.

BUT NEVER EVER EVER EVER fault your self for something you had NO control really over.

--
Michael, Chicago IL
28, Still learning to Survive
"Holding on to anger is like grasping a hot coal with the intent of throwing it at someone else; you are the one who gets burned." Buddh



Edited by Chgocub83 (11/29/11 11:16 PM)

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#377888 - 12/03/11 09:30 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Chgocub83]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
Hey Eric

Thanks for your posting and all your sharing and feedback here-it is comforting to see you as a member of the MS Community.

I think the question or orientation or preference or identity can be successfully addressed AFTER some of the larger consequences and damage from the abuse is faced and dealt with.

I had a lot of confusion about my "true" orientation and experimented enough to gather data-but my sexuality was damaged and sidetracked by the overt abuse and covert abuse /Emotional incest heaped on me growing up. I became alcoholic and later a sex addict-the confusion these acting out behaviors added to my life was immense-

I had to clear that away and be celibate for weeks while I faced my unhealthy behaviors and compulsiveness. Being honest and gentle with myself (not stirring up my psyche with false solutions) was perhaps the hardest thing I've ever done-but everything was on the line- and the freedom from truly facing yourself without judgements or labels helped me gain a much deeper and empathetic understanding of myself and my role in my life-and to finally touch that core sadness and grief and anger underneath it all.

I wasted years acting out inappropriately and denying myself healthy behavior relationships and honesty.

I don't have simple answers except that stopping the old unhealthy coping, asking for help, and striving to face mysf set me free to discover and own an authentic and powerfully healthy sexuality that is intimate and redeeming.

Don't know if that helps, but that's what came up for me when I read your post.

Be well.



Edited by Mountainous Buck (12/03/11 03:21 PM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#377941 - 12/03/11 11:47 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Chase Eric Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2379
Thanks, Mt. Buck and Michael -

**tRiGGeRs!**

Michael, when you said The funny thing about our brains, when we don't remember things, we still have emotional remembrance of things, it makes me realize that it as if we have two minds - our brains and our hearts. I can never get the two to agree. And although the heart can be convinced for a while by the brain, it forgets so quickly.

Mr. Buck, I wish I had your self-discipline. I really admire that, and have been a bit in awe of your personal strength just seeing some of your other posts. I can see that your avatar and screen name fit you well, indeed.

Thank you both for your insights.

Sexual orientation seems almost hopelessly confusing. I think at one point I gave up trying to "force" the issue and saw it more like a river. I can waste my life swimming against the current, but after years of doing that I would have gotten nowhere. If I drift, at least I'll be somewhere else.

My thankfully brief period of promiscuity involved sexual acts that I would never allow to go to completion. I would bring things up to the point of penetration but would almost always thwart my partner from doing so - much to his frustration. I just couldn't complete - even if I was in a sexual frenzy myself. Talk about will-power! I suppose I was the ultimate tease but I used to think back then that it was the only way to absolutely ensure myself to remain free of disease (at least that worked).

I now wonder if it was actually just an exercise in saying "NO". I must have had about 30 partners like that before I started settling into long-term relationships (not my choice, ironically, but that's where the flow of the river took me). Even those didn't add up to close the number of times my molester penetrated me. Is it a math thing - if I hit the magic number of NO's then I no longer have to play that game?

This is certainly a journey, and I can't express how much it means to me to share with you and everyone else - and have you share with me. For so long I thought I was the only one. Our burdens are like coffins of our former selves we carry on our backs - it's nice to have others help us carry the load...



Edited by Chase Eric (12/04/11 01:26 AM)
Edit Reason: edited for brevity
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#378145 - 12/04/11 04:57 PM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Chase Eric]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
Dude,

It's not self-discipline:

After years of self-delusion, rationalization, and lies, I had a choice to keep going or admit I needed help to face my life.

It is the decision to FACE MYSELF HONESTLY NO MATTER WHAT that you call "discipline"-I keep showing up for accountability and honesty, and try to be open minded to what shows up and what my support network has to say. smile

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#378413 - 12/06/11 09:54 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Chase Eric]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
Mr. Buck, I wish I had your self-discipline. I really admire that, and have been a bit in awe of your personal strength just seeing some of your other posts. I can see that your avatar and screen name fit you well, indeed.


I think the same. I admire Mr. Buck's strength. To have as much strength is my goal.

Avery



Edited by Avery46 (12/06/11 01:50 PM)
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aka DJsport

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#378529 - 12/07/11 01:04 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Avery46]
limit Offline


Registered: 04/23/11
Posts: 131
.



Edited by limit (12/17/11 05:35 PM)

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#378547 - 12/07/11 08:46 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: limit]
Chase Eric Offline

Moderator
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2379
Thanks guys for the wonderful support - all of you, Michael, Buck, Avery. And Limit - you sure have this one completely nailed down. Everything you said makes sense right to the core - especially the part about wasting life trying to figure oneself out. We are what we are. And you've come a long way, my friend.

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#382357 - 01/14/12 04:22 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: Mountainous Buck]
1lifenow Offline


Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 437
Loc: west coast
[quote=Mountainous Buck

I had a lot of confusion about my "true" orientation and experimented enough to gather data-but my sexuality was damaged and sidetracked by the overt abuse and covert abuse /Emotional incest heaped on me growing up. I became alcoholic and later a sex addict-the confusion these acting out behaviors added to my life was immense-

I had to clear that away and be celibate for weeks while I faced my unhealthy behaviors and compulsiveness. Being honest and gentle with myself (not stirring up my psyche with false solutions) was perhaps the hardest thing I've ever done-but everything was on the line- and the freedom from truly facing yourself without judgements or labels helped me gain a much deeper and empathetic understanding of myself and my role in my life-and to finally touch that core sadness and grief and anger underneath it all.

I wasted years acting out inappropriately and denying myself healthy behavior relationships and honesty.

[/quote]


Holy shit , I had to re-read this to make sure i did not write this from someplace deep inside. Its like we mirror each other.

I am new to being gay(maybe accepting is a better term), went to a yoga class tonite. Met a nice man there, he is a dad too. Invited me for a bite to eat after. We talked about coming out late in life, the difference between gay men with and without children, and the way we are so much happier in our heart and what we present to the world now. Then he talked about his gambling addiction he is working thru, his recovery from a hyper-religious period and the way he could not ever feel his married life was "right" the way he just wanted to give and not receive, and we are not talking about sex( which of course was never quite right somehow ie, no such thing as premature ejaculation).

So I took the first step and told him I understood. I told him about my CSA, and then I asked him about his. His jaw just dropped. "But, How could you possibly know?". You are my brother I told him, and you have so many more. Never through the T he got, or any of the marriage workshops through his church, had any of this EVER been even acknowledged as a possibility. I referred him here.

I told him about his relationship with his father, and his mother - how nothing was ever good enough and he was NEVER told what he did, he himself or anything would ever be OK. That strive for control and balance that seemed to elude him was what lead him to dive unblinking into the BOOK. Somehow gambling was a release cuz it was the only time there was "fun". At least he could feel something.

He could not believe that I knew him b4 I even heard anything. I see each of us here, in all of us here.

I asked how he was doing now. He said he has a new philosophy that he came up with himself. " You can either live in the problem or live in the solution" . Baby steps are awesome!

So the observations and questions are all valid. Its who we are. Your orginal question Eric is wondering if we are different and how do we frame it. The only difference is the friend pool and "friend" pool is the same so sometimes its hard to tell. But learning from our experiences/mistakes, its just human.





Edited by 1lifenow (01/14/12 11:44 AM)
Edit Reason: speller bad
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The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

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#382363 - 01/14/12 09:28 AM Re: Observations and Question (>>sorry - triggers<<) [Re: 1lifenow]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
Wow 1life-the part about recognizing the wounded survivor in others is so true-I never saw it put into writing here before but I carry that ability within. It resonates with me when I see other damaged men who are doing their best to Not " live in the problem" but to "live in the solution"

Who else out there connects / identifies just seeing other survivors?

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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