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#37534 - 04/12/05 01:52 AM The worst crime of all time may trigger
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Child abuse to me, is the worst crime that anyone can inflict on a kid, to me it is worse than murder, because I always think that if you are murdered then you are not suffering no more.

It's tough, but you know I read about kids being abused and dying, but the sick thing is, I think, OK, they are out of all the mental shit that goes with surviving it.

This topic is controversial, and I know that so many will not share this view, I don't, and I hate all forms of abuse, and there are so many, but they all manifest as mental abuse, and can lead to many problems both real and perceived.

The rape of innocence, who knows what it means?
People, yeah, they make jokes, they know it is bad for the kid, but hey, they sure don't know what the kid has to put up with.

Sometimes I feel so small in this big world, the one I thought I could change, but one day I find my voice, one day we all do, and so many of us will, maybe this is a rant, and it should not be in this place.

I remember how much it hurt just getting thru childhood, adn how I just wanted to be out of it, never feeling part of the real world, oddness, being laughed at, ridicule and humiliation.

I lost everything through abuse, and now just live with what I scrape through, but I still have a love of life, because I learn to live in my own world, the world of the child, who wanted none of this to happen to him or nobody.

I am happy, I am not normal, but I never could be, then again, what is normal? Do I ever need that? No, I am an individual who fought thru this crap for better days to come, and now I out of work, and my doc says that is OK.

She is so good, and so understanding, I walked out of work end of Feb, adn never been back, I get emails from workmates who don't understand, but I have to make excuses to them, or lies.

If I fight as a kid to get this far, then I never give up, the fight we had to face was not imaginable by anyone we meet, and it is so much a pity, that it is so hard to share.

Maybe it is the hurt that I see young guys goin thru, and I hope they find the strength to get thru, because we all can identify with this shit, that is raw.

You guys are brilliant, and I mean it, I am just trying to vent off what is in my mind, because it hurts, just to see the hurt, and the way the world does not see it,

silence no more,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#37535 - 04/12/05 10:47 PM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
Aden Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
In a recent newspaper editorial that I wrote on CSA I suggested that death might be better than living with the life long effects of SA in light of societies failure to grasp the problem.

One respondent called me a sick pervert who should be locked in a mental institution. She also used some of the key phrases of abuse, suggesting that I should “grow up,” “Be a man,” and “quit whining.” She also shifted blame for continuing abuse from the neighbors, and law enforcement officials, to the numerous false reports of abuse filed by vengeful associates.

Needless to say, her rebuttal to my editorial made me sick. Physically ill.


#37536 - 04/14/05 04:17 AM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
Brandon61 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 04/06/05
Posts: 28
You bring up one of the best things about this site: you don't have to make excuses or explain here. We know what it's like.
I appreciate all of your input--you offer a lot of hope and support to others (sometimes by just responding to posts).

#37537 - 04/14/05 07:35 AM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
FLRich Offline

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404

There is a common truth in what you posted and what Aden posted in this thread. You are talking about 'the hurt, and the way the world does not see it.'

Aden writes, "One respondent called me a sick pervert who should be locked in a mental institution. She also used some of the key phrases of abuse, suggesting that I should “grow up,” “Be a man,” and “quit whining.” She also shifted blame for continuing abuse from the neighbors, and law enforcement officials, to the numerous false reports of abuse filed by vengeful associates."

It's not that the world DOES not see it, it's that the world does not WANT to see it. A real Pollyanna Syndrome (No offense, Lynn). Unfortunately we, the abused, don't have that luxury.

#37538 - 04/14/05 02:23 PM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Rich, when i wrote this thread, i went back and thought of deleting it, but what the heck, this is niggling me, and it has done for many years.

I got a few PMs about it, all positive, but yeah, the world just does not want to know, if it happens, kick up, then forget.

The kid never can forget, they have to put up with all the mental stress on top of everyday growing up, no specialist help when needed most, and everyone just expects them to just get over in time.

Never mind the false allegations, how many kids would go through so much embarrassment for that?

What about the "SILENCE"! The main thing that nobody gets to know how deep the problem really lies, and how perps get away with it for years, and sure the cycle is set in motion for future abuse, not that I could ever do it.

Aden makes the point about the dumb woman know it all, weve all met these people, it makes me wish on them that they should have gone through it.

Yeah, I just wanted this post to go to the bottom and fade into archive, but I had to post it, because the bottom line is, that is just how it is, or it was for me, and many others.



Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#37539 - 04/15/05 01:18 AM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
Thad Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 08/28/01
Posts: 1752
Loc: Oakland, CA
I think it is important to keep speaking out - there are those who will not hear - but more and more there are those who listen.

Tuesday, I went to the closing arguments by the attorney for the Oakland Catholic Church who are being sued by two brothers who were abused. It was an awful experience, the slime that dripped off the lawyer's diminution of what their culpability was and what the harm that was done, was almost more than I could stand. I had a physical reaction as though I was in the presence of another Perp.

After, I told one of the plaintiffs that I was there to support them, (there were other very supportive survivors there too)

Today, they announced that the jury awarded almost 2 million to them, much of it PUNITIVE damages and the jury commented that the Church's behavior in transfering a known pedophile to another church was reprehensible.

The jury heard it. They recognized how awful it was for the survivors.

Yes, we go on suffering for a long time, but we never know how much our truth changes others.

And yes, it is a profound suffering that we go through...but I have always believed that "pain is pain" and it is useless to compare types of is still suffering.

Our pain is diminished when we can turn it to into the truth which is a source of power over the darkness we were left with.

I can not know what these brothers went through, but I can admire the bravery that brought them to say their truth and insist on accountability from those that allowed it to go on.

"..this place isn't a discussion's a portal..." Lupin
"The truth will set you free, but first it will probably piss you off." dwf's AA sponsor.

#37540 - 04/15/05 05:05 AM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
dwf Offline
Moderator/BoD Emeritus

Registered: 05/24/03
Posts: 1223
Loc: Austin, Texas USA
I'm not sure if this is pertinent to this topic, but I feel moved to share some words that a friend once said to me.

They helped me, and so I pass them on.

He told me that if I thought my suffering was the worst it could be, then I needed to get out more.

By that, he meant, get out of myself more, go out, look around and see what the rest of the world has to deal with.

I followed his advice; I still do to this day. And it always helps.

No way do I think that my sexual abuse is the worst crime ever.

No way do I feel that being dead is anywhere near preferable to living and recovering from the effects of sexual abuse.

Not to say that others experience could be different, but that's the way it works for me.

I agree with Thad about the uselessness of comparing pain. It's a losing proposition for me.

I sense that this thread is not meant to be about rational thoughts, but about feelings, still at some point a reality check is good for me.

If I start thinking that what happened to me was the worst thing in the world, a quick look at the headlines or certain chapters in world history will quickly disabuse me of that idea.

Then I can do something constructive like identify with human suffering in general, rejoin the human race and start living with the rest of mankind in this very difficult, tenuous, dangerous yet beautiful world we inhabit.


"Poke salad Annie, 'gators got you granny
Everybody said it was a shame
'Cause her mama was aworkin' on the chain-gang"

-Tony Joe White

#37541 - 04/15/05 11:54 AM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Thanks for all the input, like I said, I just wanted this topic to fall off, and here I am bringing it back to the top.

It has had its spin offs, of some reacting to the hurt, maybe seeing the hurt in me, yeah it hurts, it hurt and always will.

It hurts most to see the difficultly facing any child who goes thru this today, the loss of individuality, to know who you are, and the feeling of being someone who does not belong.

The feeling of being alien, and somehow disabled thru thought, the feeling of thinking who knows? Can they see the hurt, I am just like you but hurt inside, and I cannot show you the hurt so I hide.

Yeah, its all about losing natural growth, christmas, birthdays, they dont mean anything any more, nothing does, and when youre a kid, it sucks to hell.

I wanted to just yell out to my class just what it was that made me different, but as time went on, I thought, whoa, no way, yeah I had friends, no difficulty there, I had kids who I did not want to be friends with, so it caused fights, and yeah, I always won, because I always had to be one step ahead of life.

I love life, because I see so much beauty through the hurt, I live life in a simple manner, so I dont have to keep up with anyone, then again, I never needed to.

Yeah, this thread has spin offs, and I wont post stuff like this again, but it hurt too much to not share it, warts and all, it is what I think,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#37543 - 04/15/05 08:23 PM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
Dan88 Offline

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
Excellent post, Ste. I think you posted what a lot of us feel. I know I do.

I understand why people don't get it. I spend a lot of time wondering what it would be like to be normal, but at the end I know I will never really get it. They're in the same place. Even if they want to understand what survivors are up against, they can't really get it either.

It is lonely sometimes in a strange way.

#37544 - 04/15/05 10:44 PM Re: The worst crime of all time may trigger
Bobby Offline

Registered: 12/01/04
Posts: 1287
Loc: Arizona
Ste, We have talked a lot and you have been so very supportive all the way through this thing...I call it a "thing" because I really have no name for the pain and the despair and the questioning and the doubt and the addictions and the shame and the fear and the loneliness and the horrible nights and the family the doesn't quite believe, but won't go so far as to tell you so. And I have sure let everyone here know about my pain, and everyone has been kind and supportive.

I will never be one to say that good things have come from my abuse. I hate my abuse. I abhor everything that happened. I hate that it is with me every day and that sometime during every day I experience it again in some way...sometimes when I least expect it. I won't go on with all know about all of it. I just don't want this to be misconstrued a as a post about good that has come out of my abuse. I will fight to the death anyone who ever says that to me.

I, like most of you, have been suicidal...several times..the pain seemed unbearable...but there are reasons why I am glad I am still alive.

I got to see my kids grow up. I got to love them. I got to see what amazing people they have become. I got to hold my son in my arms and declare out loud that he would never have the kind of childhood I had. I told him every single day of his life that I loved him. I tell him that every time I see him now.

When the horrible influence...the line of abuse got to me...even when I didn't know what was happening...I stopped it. I recognized it for the evil that it was...even before I remembered my own abuse. I STOPPED IT!!! It will not go on in my family.

I am extremely protective of children and recognize I think more quickly the telltale signs of abuse. There is somehow a sixth sense about it. I am a teacher. I say things. I ask questions. I find out. No child will suffer if there is any way to stop it.

I have begun to speak out about SA in men and boys. I am no longer silent about it. I no longer hide it. If someone asks the question, they get the straight answser. It wasn't my fault. I have nothing to hide. The old "trash" about the abused becoming the abuser is just that..."trash". The survivors I know have become protectors. If we are to change the stereotype, they must know who we are and that we are living examples of the difference between a victim and a suvivor. I am alive. I will change as many attitudes as I can.

I am sensitive to pain and need in others and want to help. I might have been this way no matter what, but I think it is no accident that of all the open, sensitive, caring, nurturing men I have known, at least 75% of them are here, and, of all of the men who are completely the opposite...not one...not one is here. Is that good that came from the abuse? No. The abuse caused a horrible need in us...a hole in our emotions. Because of that, we recognize that in others and move to help and support (dare I say love?) them. Splitting hairs?....maybe, but I still say that the abuse didn't make me a better person...I became a more sensitive person to help others recover from their abuse.

I have become very aware of and grateful for those who have loved me through the years and have lived with the results of my SA, even when none of us knew why I was the way I was. They loved me because of who I was and not in spite of who I was...and took the moods and the "strange quirks" as just a part of the man.

I have done some good in the world. Because of the nature of my job, I have touched the lives of over 15,000 children. (I counted. \:\) ) I am still teaching and so the total goes up. I can honestly say that I treated every single one of those children with respect and as a person in his own right. No kid was just a kid to me. Each was his or her own person with wants, needs and a right to be heard....and I listened, even when I didn't have time to. And I "loved...cared for" each of them even when they didn't make it easy to. I had my days...some really lousy ones that I don't care to remember...but I apologized and went on...most kids don't hold grudges.

Even though there were times I wanted to die, and sometimes I still hurt almost that bad and think...I never want to hurt this bad again, I'm glad I didn't die. Even though the pain was horrible at times, I would have missed the good times. And, believe me, I know that's impossible to think about when you're in the middle of one of the awful times, when the hurt in the middle of your body (that's where mine comes) is so bad and radiates outward and you go sit in your corner and curl up and sometimes curl up and cry.

There are those here who have suffered so very much, and still do. But you have all affected my life so positively. I would be a very different person...less caring...less brave...if I had not met you. How can I feel sorry for myself when you face so much every day and don't feel sorry for yourselves. You may have wanted to die, but, it means so much to my life that you are here, and that you care about me.

I agree that you can't really compare pain and that so many things are so cruel in different ways, but, I've read your stories and would be hard-pressed to find worse cruelty than most of you have had to endure. I wonder how many of you have survived and admire in awe of your spirit...for still being here. I also can't really argue that in some cases death may have been easier for the child than to live with the pain and the aftermath of his abuse. But what I can say is that in my most selfish moments and my most thankful ones, I thank God that you are alive, and that you have become a part of who I am. Bobby

I'm healing now, and I wasn't sure I would.

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