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#369594 - 09/06/11 05:11 PM Gay can't stay to pray
1lifenow Offline

Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 437
Loc: west coast

Sometimes I get sad when I read about guys or talk to guys who have come from the place where on top of society making us feel different and unacceptable, so does their religious community times 10. I dont know if this puts things more in perspective, but I think anything that comes from a place of understanding rather than judging is aces in my book.

I found this on the Gay365 site:

Wayne Cole Said: September 14th, 2010 at 5:03 pm
This is what the Bible says about Gays.

Here Jesus refers to “eunuchs who have been so from birth.” This terminology (“born eunuchs”) was used in the ancient world to refer to homosexual men. Jesus indicates that being a “born eunuch” is a gift from God.
Matthew 19:10-12
Eunuchs had two meanings one parents would castrate there children so they could serve and guard women in high household. The other meaning is what Jesus said and they are born gay and they were not CASTRATED.
Four gay couples in the Bible are:
Ruth and Naomi
David and Jonathan
Daniel and Ashpenaz
A Roman centurion asked Jesus to heal his slave but it was not his slave it was his gay lover
and Jesus healed him. So why is it that God and Jesus love gays but so called Christians don’t.

And I am a retire Christian Counselor and I am gay. My parents knew I was gay when I was 6 but they did not give me a bad time about it. As a Christian I did not have any problem with it.

I post this because a friend was just kicked out of his church by the new pastor who didnt approve of him. He had been in this church all his life and was an active and contributing member. He too is a survivor and is still friends with his ex-wife and an involved parent to his children. The last pastor was completely cool with him being gay but the new guy had the power to trump all of that. Suprisingly, he struggles with internalized homophobia, feels powerless to confront workplace biggotry and is cynical of the whole process.

I just find it amazing that this so-called sin seems to be weighted more heavily than others. I wonder if the pastor expunged anyone else in the church?

Instead, I think it would be great to here about stories from men who found positive affirmation and acceptance in their lives.

The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

#369598 - 09/06/11 05:26 PM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: 1lifenow]
Driftwood Offline

Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
Don't know if this link is going to work, but if not you can google Bishop Spong's Manifesto, which I think is the most elegant thing ever written about the (so-called) debate from (so-called) Christians over homosexuality. The claim "love the sinner, hate the sin" is just a convenient lie some religious people tell themselves so they can continue to hate people they don't understand.

Edited by Driftwood (09/06/11 06:30 PM)
Edit Reason: typo

#369603 - 09/06/11 07:43 PM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: Driftwood]
petercorbett Offline

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2509
Hi, my fraternal brothers.

This gay boy of Manny years ago, who was born and raised Roman Catholic. A "precious gift from God." Abused by his "mom." Strangers and a friend of the family.

I gave up my religion as I told God to take a hike, as I didn't need him.....Where were YOU when I needed YOU? I was 15 years old. I tried to get close to HIM while in the military, but it was a love, hate relationship and i gave it all up completely.

Fast forward to 2 years & 4 months ago. While at a WoR I was seeking myself, my inner child. Who was I? What was I? So I made a deal with God. Yep, me, the one who didn't need him anymore. If I got young Pete back, I will give up my compulsive M'ing & I will try and come back to you.
I received young Pete back. It wasn't a few days later I broke my first part of the deal. A bit later I did get the courage to go to church. Back to the religion of my birth. Back to where that young boy truly believed that if his earthly "mom" didn't love or want him, surely his Heavenly Mother did. I didn't think that She did either.
I had a long talk with the parish priest asking him if there was a place at the table for this gay man. After all we were all the "Children of God." Made in his image & likeness. Well, Pete, you want to go to confession? Nope. Are you going to change your lifestyle? Nope. Well Pete, I cannot keep you from coming to Mass, however you cannot take part in any of the sacraments. You are welcome to come and pray. But that's it.
So, after a year I gave that up too.There is no room at the table in the Catholic church for Gay's period. My deal with God was finally broken completely.

During these past three years in dealing with the after effects of CSA, in all my T sessions, in all my 12 week PTSD sessions, in all of those four WoR's in all those recovery books and here in MS. It has been suggested that part of healing is also getting in touch with our spirituality.
(Let me make it clear they do not advocate any religion period.)
However, perhaps you need help from a Higher Power. What ever you consider what that might be. I remember that from my AA meetings.

So, now at this point in my recovery, i need some spiritual help. I was talking to a very good friend of mine. He wrote an address on a paper napkin for me. He told me that it was a Gay/Lesbian center. A place where i would be welcomed with open hearts and minds. A place where I could try and shed my extreme shyness & loneliness. I went there, I found other brothers & sisters like me. They welcomed me, made me feel at home and part of their (our) family.
Oh, yes, it's a church too.
It's a Spirit Of Christ, Metropolitan Community Church. This one where I attend we all are Gay men and women. Our pastor is an ordained minister, he also was sexually abused as a gay young boy, and he is in a partnership. He understands perfectly well where we stand in God's love. Our communion table is for everyone, any time. We are his children too, he loves us, and don't ever forget it, Peter. I'm still trying.

So, this ex Catholic-agnostic-now Christian boy/man has found his God/Supreme Being/Great Spirit, what ever label you want to use. I am finally at home with HIM. You can be too.

Long winded and maybe slightly off the main topic.

Heal, well my fraternal brothers, heal well.

"I will take that lost boys hand, and I will lead him from the depths of darkness, into the sunshine, forever into eternity." As he is me.


Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.

#369619 - 09/06/11 10:32 PM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: petercorbett]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
I appreciate the posting of the links which both contain great information. I currently do not attend a church due to the nearest ones that are accepting of me are an hour from me. I did visit one last winter and enjoyed the service. For now I am a bit stymied by the distance and gas prices.

I wish there was a wider spectrum available for all but I am thankful there are some who have their doors open for us. Some who welcome us as equals. That is something to be celebrated.

I believe that God loves me and He hears my prayers. I do not doubt either of those one bit.

It is nice to see productive topics like this one in this forum.

Broad statements often miss their true mark.

#369645 - 09/07/11 03:48 AM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: prisonerID]
NewSummer Offline

Registered: 09/02/11
Posts: 59
Loc: Surrey BC
I was blessed to find a relationship with a higher power after my marrage had crumbled and my life was crashing around me due to my CSA. Although I dont attend my church often, knowing that I can let go of my worries and ask my God to take care of them while I move forward through life has been a huge help. Sometimes just asking that my problem be held in safe keeping for me for a day or a week till I have time to deal with it frees up the needed space in my head to allow me to deal with the issue at a more appropriate time. I didnt have a church upbringing so the concept of a higher power was perplexing. My ex inlaws shunned me when I came out. Apparently, it is OK to judge. Funny thing as they are "good christians" in the family. My God does not judge us, only loves us. As a wise friend once told he, God has a very broad mind. He understands. I held those words with me for many years while I lived with the shame and guilt of being a wounded soul. I felt so alone for so many years, all the while being surrounded by my family and children. Thank God for the United Church of Canada and their loving open arms.

life is what happens while you make other plans- John Lennon

#369658 - 09/07/11 07:50 AM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: NewSummer]
philistine Offline

Registered: 04/27/09
Posts: 212
Loc: Oregon
2 points for Driftwood.

I really appreciate the link.


"No price is too high to pay for the privilege of owning yourself" - Nietzsche

#369713 - 09/07/11 11:51 PM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: philistine]
Driftwood Offline

Registered: 05/27/11
Posts: 86
Loc: Colorado
Glad you liked it, Mike.
Bishop Spong's Manifesto is an amazing piece of writing.

(Think I'll wear my points like epaulets.)

#377075 - 11/28/11 04:40 AM Re: Gay can't stay to pray [Re: Driftwood]
lukehorace Offline

Registered: 11/13/10
Posts: 10
Loc: Michigan
I am a gay man married to a gay EPISCOPAL priest (not Roman Catholic). My husband is the pastor of a small church in Michigan. Almost everyone is straight (a few gay woman). They love us. We love them. Almost all of them attended out wedding in the church some years ago.

We are all involved in each others' lives. We take care of each other. My husband marries and baptizes people. He visits the hospital when they are sick, and he does funerals. I am a part of all these activities.

You can't always find a church that will accept you. Most Episcopal churches have a good record on this, but there are still some really bigoted parishes out there.

Nobody is going to deny me my gay identity. Nobody is going to deny my right to practice Christianity as I see fit to do so.

But I am also going to be clear that sometimes the best thing you can do with respect to Christianity is get out of it.

I have many friends who practice different forms of spirituality: Buddhist, Hindu, Jewish. What matters is to respond to what's in your heart. It isn't whether you are Christian or not. It's whether you choose to respond to love in you and around you, or to let other people define what you are supposed to be.

Go with your heart.

Harry Nicholson (attended Hope Springs, October, 2014)


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