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#368336 - 08/17/11 04:57 PM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: grumplestiltskin]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
Dude I'm bisexual. I have no religious agenda. The article I posted was done by a psycho therapist . When I get home I'll link at least 5 articles on imprinting. Imprinting happens to everyone abused or not. And btw sexuality isn't as set in stone as some would think. Were all basically born bisexual with a LEAN in one area or another. Implying everyone is born 100 percent straight or gay is implying perfection. This would mean from the moment the person is born until they die they will NEVER have a thought, dream, fantasy or attraction to anyone other than there predetermined orientation. I'd love to meet that person if they exist cause they don't. I have a ton of gay friends who say sometimes for no reason they can explain they get an urge to make out with a girl or have sex with a girl. People are all to some degree shades of gray with sexuality, some would argue this is because of the MANY sexual imprints we have developed in the first 20 years of life. I can't stand the religious bs that say homosexuality is "wrong" that's not my intention to paint that picture at all. I'll provide a ton of articles on the subject. Sexual templates and imprints are terms used freely in the psych community

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#368342 - 08/17/11 08:08 PM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: thefutureorbust]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/SS.html


http://racehist.blogspot.com/2008/09/sexual-imprinting-in-humans.html

http://lcsmithphd.com/SexualIdentity.html


earlier you said imprinting cannot cause "homosexual urges" This from the words of Joe Kort :

http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=341555


http://www.tc.umn.edu/~parkx032/NWL105.html

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#368411 - 08/18/11 06:18 PM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: thefutureorbust]
grumplestiltskin Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Denver CO
Sigh. Once again I'm reminded that when you argue with people on the Internet, even when you're right you're wrong. One of the links you provided is to a site talking about people choosing sexual partners who look like their parents which has literally nothing to do with the topic, other than the use of the suspect term imprinting. Also it's incredibly racist, couched in the language of pseudoscience, but with openly racist commenters and links to such lovely things as Vanguard News Network, a deeply racist/white supremacist website. One of then is a link to an article that I literally can't read because of the background, but it could be a legitimate source. I don't have time to research the author but he did go to Trinity College which certainly sounds religious. One of them is a link to a book that clearly hasn't been published or peer reviewed and is only published on a respectable website because the author is apparently a student. Then there's the discussion on this message board.

None of that is science.

I'm glad you don't have an agenda, but when your favorite story is about a guy who was gay for 22 years then changed, perhaps you can see why that could be confusing.

I should have been more careful in what I said, you are right about that. I meant to say that homosexuality isn't caused by abuse and that orientation isn't caused by abuse. Certainly sexual confusion, ritual repetition, or other problems could come out of it.

Something being on the internet doesn't make it true. You're more than welcome to believe whatever you like, but the science just isn't there and "imprinting" is a suspect term (much like SSA actually) that tends to mostly get used in Christian, reparative therapy circles that have nothing to do with science.

Anyway I'm kind of done with this on a number of levels.


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#368415 - 08/18/11 07:57 PM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: grumplestiltskin]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
Science has told us literally NOTHING about sexuality..there is NO conclusive proof about any one cause of sexuality or the after effects of abuse. Everything is opinion and theory. Funny how same sex attraction isn't a 'scientefic term" yet all the "experts who give advice on this site like Joe Kort and Dr Ken use it frequently. According to you then every man on this site that is "attracted" to other men and dont wish to have that attraction are all gay or bi? abuse CAN cause ATTRACTION to someone of the same sex...MANY therapists have spoken about that concept..can they provide proof?? NO there are many things that make sense for many people that there are NO FACTS for. And whsts the difference between an actual orientation and someone repeating an act for almost there whole lives? some men make positive connections emotional to their abuser..so sexually it feels good, emotionally it feels good (on some level)..not TOO much different then an ACTUAL orientation. But your right I can believe what I want you believe what you want. Just because I dont have EMPIRICAL evidence to prove imprinting doesnt mean it does not exist. And funny how I mentioned the resident experts several times (ken and Joe) and you've said nothing. Thats curious to me? despite them both using the terms imprinting and SSA. Bisexuals dont have science to back theier existance up does that mean we dont? lol come on now



Edited by freshwound (08/18/11 07:58 PM)
_________________________
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#368448 - 08/19/11 08:14 AM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: thefutureorbust]
Moortje Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/20/09
Posts: 104
Loc: Oregon
Quote:
Science has told us literally NOTHING about sexuality.


Ehhh..wow.

Anyway, anyone looking to find a nice go-to debunked list of "ex-gay" (or as I call them, been-gays) websites should find Truth Wins Out a great resource. It does a great job of sifting through the bigoted Christianist muck like NARTH and "Doctor" Nicolosi and lays bare their blatant FRAUD. Quackery of the highest order.

I too decline to accept the notion of so-called "SSA".

~Matty


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#368454 - 08/19/11 11:53 AM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: Moortje]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
I like how you lef t out the next sentence "there is NO conclusive proof about any one cause of sexuality or the after effects of abuse. Everything is opinion and theory." is that not true? and is it not true that SSA is a term used by a few experts on this site and compare it to homosexuality. Its two different things for surviviors.

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#368455 - 08/19/11 12:05 PM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: thefutureorbust]
thefutureorbust Offline


Registered: 04/24/11
Posts: 171
Loc: NC
a great discussion on this topic here and SORRY no empirical evidence lol just people from this site having a discussion which is all you can really do when talking about abuse or sexuality.


http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=360202&page=1

_________________________
"What does not kill me makes me stronger"

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#368492 - 08/20/11 01:05 AM Re: How to help our wives who are triggered by SSA [Re: thefutureorbust]
WalkingSouth Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16270
Loc: Waldport, Oregon
Gentlemen,

The topic of Gay vs. SSA is one that will NEVER be settled on a recovery site such as ours. This website is not about that issue. While we realize that men will want to have a certain amount of give and take on this issue we draw the line when the discussion degenerates into name calling or the casting of aspersions on people or groups.

For that reason this discussion is being locked. We ask that the discussion not be taken up once more in another thread unless or until the participants can agree to disagree amicably and without pejoratives or other kinds of attacks. Users who we discover to consistently be taking these kinds of discussions beyond that boundary may find themselves subject to further actions designed to curb that boundary crossing behavior.


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