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#36199 - 01/21/03 07:46 PM ZERO / ONE
Don-NY Offline

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY

Is the glass half full or is it half empty? Clearly, the glass is twice as large as it needs to be.
This is all about spectrums, potentials, and perceptions. Jer-, (GUY43), got me thinking about this with his reply in the Virginity thread, but I don't want this in there.

When I read his words, I checked immediately to see if his occupation was listed. No surprise, a Programmer/Analyst. I was/ am also.

So what aout this, jer. A hex dump of the EBCDIC value for the printable character "space" is 40, but a hex dump of the ASCII value for the printable character "space" is 20. How black and white is that? How many other places does an unperceived high-order bit or different byte (word) length make a difference?

I work with the latest, most sophisticated software and hardware, and sometimes, when things go wrong, the only answer is restart or reboot, and everything will work fine....until the next time.

Physicists don't formalize the concept of cold. There is the presence of heat or the absence of heat, right down to absolute zero.

Quantum mechanics is proving that any two points in the universe can be an infinite distance apart, even if they are right next to each other. And if any two points can be an infinite distance apart, then all points can be an infinite distance apart. And if that is so, then any point, including the one approximately at the center of you, can be the center of the universe, of infinity, since all other points in all directions, can be an equal (infinite) distance away.

Some de>
If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

#36200 - 01/21/03 11:42 PM Re: ZERO / ONE
michaelb Offline

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
your post has alot of truth to made me consider that maybe my ideations of suicide provide me with the hope of beginning again (if re-incarnation is true).........guess that is what is so damn appealing to me....take care......michael

#36201 - 01/22/03 12:29 AM Re: ZERO / ONE
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
to go from the inspiration of 'virginity' to quantum physics is, to say the least, a quantum leap !

But hell Don, there's some thinking in there, and this bit struck me straight away...

Are Love and Hate truly opposites? Or are they two ends of a spectrum of emotion, the apex and nadir of a wave, two sides of one coin perhaps, and the opposite of both is indifference?
I just hate indifference, it's a total waste of everything, and I love the concept that love and hate are the two ends of a spectrum with indifference being the opposite to both.

Love and hate are powerful and worthy emotions, we need them, even if it's loving jelly and hating peanut butter - it's an opinion, an emotion and we have to think about it.

To be truly indifferent is to allow the brain cells to curl up and die.

I don't believe that reincarnation is the natural opposite to suicide, life is.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#36202 - 01/22/03 07:02 AM Re: ZERO / ONE
Don-NY Offline

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY

Thanks for acknowledging what you recognize as truth in what I wrote.

But please, I would hate to think that anything I ever said, anytime, anywhere, could provide a justification or reason for suicide.

Everything I wrote here was about possibilities. Possibilities for seeing, experiencing, and accepting LIFE.

Suicide would just be giving up on any and every chance or possibility, especially the ones you haven't tried or even heard about yet.

Reincarnation can be a comforting idea, but like every other idea about what comes after Life, it is only a theory.

But if it's true, then you must not forget about one of the most important parts of this entire belief system, KARMA.

Karma has several components, but the most important idea is that as your soul journeys though its incarnations as Life, it must continually learn and perfect itself, correcting its past mistakes, thus becoming worthy of joining with the Godhead, or Nirvana, whereupon, incarnations as Life end.

The taking of Life, including suicide, is considered a very negative act in the Karmic sense. And one of the primary rules of Karma is that you will pay for negative acts in your next life, sometimes more than once.

Another aspect of Karma is that the knowledge and experience from one life is not consciously retained in the next.

Another part of this philosophy states that souls seek out the life that will have the most benefit for them in their journey towards Nirvana. Life circumstances can repeat over and over until a soul "gets it right".

Some Masters believe that as a soul is getting nearer to Nirvana, it will experience extremely difficult Life circumstances. Sort of like a final exam, but if you fail or bail out, you just increase the "coursework".

So overall, it's a net loss to take your life, only to have your Karmic debt and workload increased, and the next incarnation is even more difficult.

If you believe in reincarnation, than you must believe in Karma. Karma "punishes" the taking of Life. And Karma dictates that you are living the Life that you chose for youself so that you can learn and progress.

One of the greatest goals in this tradition is learning this; "What is, is." The belief is that all suffering comes from not believing this; from resisting and fighting "what is". This is not about giving up or giving in. It is about acceptance and reality, seeking the truth and being aware of the possibilities and limitations of existence.

Stick around Michael. I know you have a lot of pain and worries, but whatever the reasons and purpose of Life, it is the one thing we all have and can be sure of RIGHT NOW. We live, and we should hold on to that as long as we can, because there is no way to know what might come after.

Might as well see what tomorrow brings, or what you can make of it. It could be better.


If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

#36203 - 01/22/03 07:18 AM Re: ZERO / ONE
Don-NY Offline

Registered: 08/06/02
Posts: 546
Loc: Long Island, NY

It wasn't the topic of virginity that started the ideas in this post. It was just a phrase that Jer used as he explained his way of thinking.

Now if the topic had just been one's sex life, in general, then the Leap to Quantum Mechanics would make a great deal of sense in my case. Some really interesting theories and potentials, but Virtually NO Practical Applications.



If you understand everything, some things are just as they are. If you understand nothing, things are still just as they are.

#36204 - 01/22/03 03:40 PM Re: ZERO / ONE
blaidd Offline

Registered: 12/01/00
Posts: 240
Loc: Australia
"The Beauty of Grey" by Live, one of my favourite songs.

Thanks for your posts in this thread Don, as I found them very insightful.

Getting caught up in the whole way of thinking you described is very pertinent to the process we go through as survivors. It is hard to see the ground in between our extreme, or all or nothing ways of thinking.

The grey areas in our thinking are often places in which we can find alternatives and solutions to our problems and so easily ignore. I think as you progress down the healing path the grey areas begin to broaden and as a result the opportunites for future possibilities begin to accumulate.



Blaidd (pronounced as blaith/blithe) is a welsh word meaning wolf.

#36205 - 02/05/03 02:40 AM Re: ZERO / ONE
guy43 Offline

Registered: 11/17/02
Posts: 450
Loc: Minnesota
Many questions, I know. I don't have all the answers, but I just think that Black and White thinking, applied universally, ignores or denies many many possibilities; the Greys, the maybes.

I don't say this applies to anyone else, but for me, Black and White thinking was Victim Thinking. "It will hurt me or it won't hurt me." I never allowed for the possibility that it might help me.
And that is the beauty of Grey. It might help.
well, I've been off in parallel universe, but i'm back now more or less.

a lot of good points have been made here. Don-NY, first let me say 'ouch', you touched an unseen part of me ( this link talks about four sides to the coin ). i've often found that i see too much grey, too many sides to the coin OR i take what can be an unreasonable stance.

getting out of the victim role is real hard for me sometimes, epecially when i'm feeling down and stuck, like i've been feeling lately.

the phrase 'black and white thinking' got me thinking about cognitive distortions in general. Gary-CDN posted a in depth article that i've printed off, here\'s the link in this forum to it . this has been helpful to me when i can be honest with myself.

i've listened to the song 'the beauty of grey'. it is a good song, i like the band, and the title of the album. never heard of them before. been learning more about music and song lyrics since coming here... hehe.

Don also talks about Karma in this thread. sometimes i wonder, was i really bad in a past life to have this current life? or when i've felt better i've thought i must have been really good in a past life to have this happiness.

scotty (blue) and all,

sometimes, most times i'm terrified to listen to, ask and or find out what some of my inner parts have to say, or want to say. the dark side is powerful. how do i fight it?

it does get better?

coming soon - the distorted thinking plugin for SELF-CHAT v 0.1. two options availible: the 'i need some more cognitive distortions' and the chat-back 'whoa dude, let me show you the errors in your thinking'.
if you eat pasta and antipasta will you still be hungry?

#36206 - 02/06/03 03:20 AM Re: ZERO / ONE
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Thanks Don. I think that in some ways I still think in black and white. But if I notice it, or it is pointed out to me, I can see how dumb that is.

I sure hope there isn't re-incarnation. Once is sure enough for me. But ofcourse if I came back a perfect ten guy wiith lots of gorgeous hair and other really nice things, well, that would be something to look forward to.

If we could come back that is what I would want to come back as, but bright, talented, athletic, a genius on the French Horn etc. etc.

Take care Don and all.

Bob \:D

If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.


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