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#361385 - 05/03/11 06:38 PM What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor?
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Hello all, I'm new to this site and welcome any and all comments on my questions.

Here's my background (sorry it's long):
My husband and I had been married for 30 years when his SAB was finally outed. It wasn't merely a quick 'by the way, there's something I've been meaning to tell you', instead it was a revelation from an earth shattering event which brought it about.

Last September I found out my husband was having an affair. When I discovered it and confronted him, he told me he was in love with the affair partner as well as with me. His father told him to end it and I asked him to move out to get his head in order. He called her and ended it in my presence.

I couldn't understand why an affair now, especially with his history of a prior one more than 20 years before. He knew that another affair would totally devestate me and our family and he also knew it would be the end of "us". But why? At the time I found out, he had been out of work for the past 7 months after quitting his last job and soon became depressed with anxiety. No jobs were coming his way during that period of time, he began to feel he overestimated his credentials. His low self esteem created by a demotion from an earlier job was slowly deteriorating more and more, he was not eligible for unemployment and I was slowly having to sell our vehicles in order to survive and retain our home. His parents also lived closeby and helped out when they could. Overall I was being as compassionate as I could considering everything had been dumped in my lap to deal with.

Three weeks after his affair was outed, I found out he was still seeing her. In fact during a phone conversation he had with her to end it again, she stated she couldn't understand why he was doing this when they had such great sex the day before. (sound effects of bomb exploding here).

I felt that this was the final straw and he was on his was to losing both myself and his family. I slapped his face, pounded on his chest and asked him why, why? He finally hit bottom and he knew it. He collapsed into a heap crying and shook with mental anguish, he felt his life was over.

I took him home with me and tried to get any sense of explanations out of him. His lies had piled up so high, the mountain he created was finally exploding back in his face. The next day I continued to throw the questions at him and finally just asked him if there was anything he could tell me that wasn't a lie. Henceforth, the SAB was revealed. His own father had used his parental status in order to take liberties with him (and potentially other family members) when he was a child growing up. I did not disbelieve this for one moment. I knew there was some shady history with his father and now everything was finally coming together and making complete sense.

Instead of divorcing him, I have stuck by his side and opened up his options for IC therapy and further specialized SAB therapy. He's getting everything he needs to begin the wheel of recreating who he is, learning emotions that never developed as a child growing up and building self esteem.

We are now 7 months out from the 'outing' and I know that more than likely, he will never ever confront his perpetrater. And because of therapy, he now hates the person he most loved, his father. ....and his father and mother live very close to us.

He is not allowed to share any of his therapy with me. So I don't know how to react when he has comments which may be negative towards our own relationship. I guess I just don't know what my rights are as his wife. I'm still reeling from the affair, he tells me he realizes now that he didn't love her, the fog has lifted and he completely regrets what occurred during their year long liaison. We're not allowed to have marriage counseling yet, his therapist doesn't feel he's mentally ready for it. Not a day for me goes by that isn't filled with mind-movies or just thoughts of the endearments he used with her, but refuses to with me. I've told him I can never celebrate our anniversary again, instead I wish to renew our vows on another date and begin our lives with a fresh start. I've told him I will no longer be his 'whore' and 'mother', I want to be his 'wife' and be the recipient of intimacies which have been so missed throughout our marriage. I need him to take on a bigger role of managing our life whereas in the past, he left it all to me (and used me as the scapegoat when things went wrong).

Am I asking for too much too soon? I don't know how far I should push since I have no idea where he's at in his therapy and to know when I need to hang back.

As I reach mid-life, I feel that after bending over backwards for him the past 31 years, I need to know if there can even be another 30 years with 'us'. I don't want to find out 2 years down that road that his therapy has made him realize he needs to be free. In some aspects I feel trapped, but right now he's treating me with the utmost remorse and tells me he loves me. But that's all I get, there's no "I want to spend the rest of my life with you", no "you mean so much to me", "you mean the world to me" and no "I can't live life without you".

Am I still his mom, making his life comfortable for him?


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#361536 - 05/06/11 12:51 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
OLC,
Thanks for visiting MS. It sounds like you have two big issues going on: rebuilding your marriage and the fallout from his SA. The folks here MS are great to talk with. I find that they prefer to break the discussion down into bitesize topics. Do you have anybody (close friend, clergy, therapist) that you lean for support. Researching the forums here MS and checking out the material at www.1in6.org will give you some answers as you wade deeper into this topic. I am sorry that you are going through this. I hope it gets better soon for both of you. Thanks for supporting your husband to this point.
Peace,
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#361573 - 05/06/11 07:52 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Shadow+Walker]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you Shadow+Walker,
You're correct, there are two issues and now that I have my story out there, I can break down my questions to smaller, simpler posts.

I know I need to decide for myself how I'd like my future to appear, just wished I had a little vision of that future to know if it includes my husband.


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#361591 - 05/07/11 12:37 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
grumplestiltskin Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Denver CO
I'm pretty new to this whole SA thing myself, but to me it's a red flag that he's not "allowed" to share his therapy with you. Is that something the therapist has said? I've been through a lot of therapists and never once had one told me I wasn't allowed to do something. To me it sounds a bit patronizing. He's an adult, he should be allowed to make his own decisions about what is and isn't appropriate to share and when.

That said, I'd strongly advise you to get into therapy yourself. Not because there's something "wrong" with you, but because you need to focus on yourself for a while too. It's completely understandable given the circumstances, but it sounds like you have a lot of resentment. It would make sense to me to seek out a counselor who can talk with you about what it is that YOU want at this point. You're not obligated to stay in a marriage that has or continues to make you unhappy just because he's now revealed his abusive past to you.

Anyway, just my two cents, feel free to ignore them completely..


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#361593 - 05/07/11 01:15 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: grumplestiltskin]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
Yeah! What's up with that? I was concerned about that "not allowed to share any of his therapy with me" thing too. Often times it seems that couples are counseled together or team work encouraged when dealing with marriage and CSA issues. Just saying that was new to me - not that I'm an expert here.

Peace,
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#361600 - 05/07/11 05:21 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Shadow+Walker]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi Our last chance
I have also recently (6 months ago) revealed to my wife of 19 years that I am a survivor, so all is new to me. I also lived my life as a web of lies, these lies were part of my attempts to make myself look better to myself. Remember that our lives are fairly crappy at this point. It is still a shamefull experience that has made me feel less off a man. I also told my wife that I could not share with her, more as a self protection than as an excuse. Also remember that we have been lying manipulators for 35 years( In my case) and this is not an easy trend to break. Therapy also focuses more on the individual and not the relationship, so my guess is that the therapist also hasnt scratched open certain wounds and that a group with other men would probably be a better bet. Hang in there I know it is a lot to ask, but remember that deep down we are gentle loving people looking for love and caring, sometimes in the wrong places, but always scared of commitment because of the pain we have endured.
This is my experience if it doesnt fit please ignore it.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#361604 - 05/07/11 07:06 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: whome]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Minnesota
Welcome O.L.C.

Keep reading posts and sharing-some good guidance has already been shared with you. "not allowed" doesn't sit well with me either-my wife and I separated after my infidelities came out and j had months to work on my own issues before we started talking about us-but I still communicated part of what was going on in respect for her and her sanity (at that time, I was still 7 years away from acknowledging the csa).

Just know your husbands whole world has been blown apart-he's walking away from a car wreck (his life and self) stunned and in shock, probably-your partnership is damaged and he has responsibility, but he needs to get help for himself first.

Find sources of support for yourself - our mantra for a long time was "it is what it is". Al-anon books are always helpful for spouses dealing with sick and wounded spouses.



Edited by Mountainous Buck (05/07/11 07:09 AM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#361643 - 05/07/11 08:35 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Mountainous Buck]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
OK, here's the deal. Before the SAB therapist would accept my H as a patient, H had to sign a contract confirming he would not release any of the details of the treatment, to anyone, not even me. I guess the IC feels that he doesn't want a third party to find out about his treatment methods.

Last week I asked H if he would check with his IC to see if we could renew our vows so I could get my head away from our anniversary date coming up (huge horrible triggers for me). The IC told him he shouldn't renew the vows until he knows who he is, he knows who I am and I know who he is. (I needed him to renew the vows to show he was still committed to our marriage).



You all have to understand a few more items. The inlaws live on our property through a hardship permit. It was always felt they would be here til they died (both are in their 80's). When the affair was exposed and emotions were high, we all knew that everyone would lose if I decided to leave. H was not working and his parents were already helping to supplement my income to make sure the house payments were made. If I left, they would lose their home too. If I stayed and made H leave, I would not be able to maintain our property due to my own medical reasons.

Hence, this is where the entrapment comes into play for me. I don't know if I'm willing to spend the next 3-5 years while he figures himself out.......and only then to find out he wishes to move on.

Right now we cohabitate, get along quite well most days and more or less, take it one week at a time.

The biggest negative to this arrangement, his father, the perpetrator lives on our property and my H has to deal with this fact every day as he goes through his therapy.

I know this must be very, very hard for him so I feel my issues may sound petty compared to his own.


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#361678 - 05/08/11 09:38 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor


Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
Quote:
Before the SAB therapist would accept my H as a patient, H had to sign a contract confirming he would not release any of the details of the treatment, to anyone, not even me. I guess the IC feels that he doesn't want a third party to find out about his treatment methods.



Being a therapist for over 30 years, I have never heard of any legitimate therapist having a client/patient sign a contract such as this. If this is so, have you seen the contract (or perhaps your husband is saying that to keep the details of his therapy from you)?

If it is true, I would check the credentials of this person carefully as it sounds a bit cultish to me.

_________________________
Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

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#361693 - 05/08/11 02:31 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you for your insight Ken, No I have not seen the contract but I will ask my H if he received a copy of it. I truely believe the signing of the contract occurred, my H told me about it prior to the commencement of the therapy and I agreed to accept those conditions providing the therapy would begin the process of placing him on the road to recovery.


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#361713 - 05/08/11 07:37 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
grumplestiltskin Offline


Registered: 04/14/11
Posts: 30
Loc: Denver CO
Hi OLC-
I understand there are a lot of circumstances that probably justify letting things go on as they are. However, all of the reasons you give are reasons that you have to stay or that the marriage needs to work for other people. What are the reasons things need to work for YOU? Focus on yourself, understand what it is you want from your relationship (if anything) and start to move in that direction. You can't let guilt over the difficulty your choices may cause for other people force you into something that isn't working for you. If you want to leave because things aren't working for you, then make that choice for yourself. The other people involved will just have to find a way to make due.

Frankly, there are a lot of things that raise red flags here for me. The therapy being so secretive is a big one. It's possible that there are therapists who require those kinds of contracts, but it seems borderline unethical to force secrecy into a relationship that has already been damaged by secrecy. It's also possible that your husband is continuing to be deceptive. Whichever one it is, things aren't going well here.

I strongly urge you to decide what it is you want without considering the needs of others. You can't let an unhealthy family dynamic ruin the rest of your life just because it might have been easier for everyone else if you stay where you are. And your husband having been a victim does NOT give him the right to victimize you. If you genuinely love him and want to stay for all the right reasons, then you as a couple should work together on un-winding the unhealthy family dynamic and/or living situations. If you don't think you want to continue in this relationship (which is a completely valid choice, please don't let guilt or anything else tell you otherwise) then you should move in that direction.

I honestly think there's not a good reason for the two of you to be in counseling together at this point. Sure, in the immediate aftermath of the revelations he may have needed to get himself stabilized. But if he's functioning at a fairly normal level seven months on, you two can be in counseling together, perhaps with a counselor who has a working relationship with your husband's individual counselor and can (with the appropriate paperwork signed) share information that may impact your couples' work.

Anyway, just another perspective. I have a lot of therapy and counseling experience, it's just the CSA aspect that is new to me. This is kind of how things have worked for me in the past in terms of individual/couples counseling.


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#361778 - 05/09/11 07:10 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: grumplestiltskin]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thank you Grumplestiltskin,

I did ask my husband about the "contract" yesterday. He tells me that he doesn't recall discussing a contract per say, however, he did go on to clarify the "no talk" is under the confidentiality agreement with his Therapist. Evidently this therapist has had a few threats made towards him by the "spouses" in the past so he felt the need to keep his therapy confidential with the patient.

As far as me, yes, I've always been the one to take care of others before myself and I've read recently that it's people with my type of personality/mindset that are more prone to develop Fibromyalgia. My luck!

I think I will give him until September 1st, and if there's no change to the therapy options by then, I will certainly need to make some life changing decisions. Until then, I will continue to stand by my H and educate myself on how I can help him and in return, teach him to communicate more with me.

Thank you so much for your input again, I appreciated your words of wisdom.


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#361799 - 05/10/11 01:34 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi OLC
Couldn't agree with Grumple more. I cant see how a "terrorist" could be forcing secrecy into a relationship already strained by that very problem. This T is raising all sorts of red flags for me. He should be encouraging open honest discussions between you and H. This secret has been eating up your lives for to long now, No wonder he has received death threats, its because he isn't very good at what he does. Give H the option to come clean or do it alone. To help yourself get a book called "Co-Dependency no more" written by Melody Beattie. This book will help you a A lot and give you insight into some of your own needs. Don't let the lies continue to shred YOUR life.

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#361866 - 05/10/11 07:05 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: whome]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Thanks for your honest opinion Whome. I have been attempting to initiate those open honest discussions with my H and he does respond but I don't believe we'll ever be to the point where he begins initiating them himself.
When you say give H the option to come clean, he has done this already regarding the Affair, however not the full specifics of the SAB. I've already told him he can tell me the SAB details if and when he's ready.
I will definitely search out the co-dependency book at our local bookstore. Sounds like a good one to read.
Thanks you!


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#362513 - 05/18/11 10:44 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
OLC,
It has been a while since we talked and I was wondering how things were going for you. You've probably been doing some reading. Well I think youre a strong and rather brave individual for exploring the above discussions and seeking insight from us at here at MS. I hope the discussion has been helpful and that things are proceeding in a positive direction for you. We are wishing you and H the very best! Thanks for being here.
Peace,
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#363040 - 05/26/11 05:19 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Shadow+Walker]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
Hello everyone,
I've been offline for a few weeks, my laptop has been experiencing problems and I struggle with getting it fixed or purchasing a new one.

Unfortunately I haven't been into Powells yet to purchase the Codependency book, however, I did quite a bit of research on this topic on the internet and I've been analyzing my acts of kindness and how I interract with H. I've pulled back on many of the items I did in the past for H. We've also just separated our living expenses and he will be opening his own checking account and be responsible for paying a portion of our bills each month. I guess this is the first step of giving him his independence and me not feeling like I have to carry the full load on my shoulders.

While I feel torn with us no longer sharing our money and discussing new projects to begin this spring, in my heart I know it needed to be done.

I also thought about moving out for awhile, thinking it would help him rediscover "himself" and his desire to continue our marriage, but last night I asked him about his job and from his comments, I get the impression he's not getting enough positive feedback in his position he took on with a new employer a few months back. (One of the primary reasons his depression began taking its toll a few years ago). So by me leaving, I feel it would completely disrupt his mindset with negativity.

It is also important to me to feel wanted & needed by him in a method of verbal communication and intimacy. I've told him what I need and he either cannot comprehend or doesn't feel a need to respond (because I'm here for him anyway). Aside from "I love you" and the usual kissing/hugging, his only other way of telling me he cares is by doing chores or projects around the house. He did all this for me during his affair, so why would I think he has stepped up and changed now?
In lieu of his past behavior, I felt my absence was the only option I could initiate in order to achieve the results I needed. Especially since we're not allowed to go to marriage counseling for who knows how long.........

On a good note, a few nights ago I asked him when he felt he would be ready to tell me about his SAB and he actually indicated he thought he already had. He went on to give me the details and they in fact turned out to be the same pieces I already knew. He confirmed he was unable to remember anything else through T and at this point, he is now on the road to dealing with what did occur and finding out who he is.

When he talked about the roadblocks he was coming up on in his job, he also told me what he did to circumvent the problems which may have arisen. I was totaly struck by how smart & knowledgeable he is in his line of work. Because he had been unable to obtain another position similar to one he had lost a few years back, I'm sure he no longer believe's in himself. If he just had that belief, a little extra drive and an x-tra ounce determination, he could obtain that goal. I'm hoping his therapy will give him that or at least show him the way.

As for me, I have two horses, two dogs, five cats and two young grandsons.....the best therapy in the world!


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#363051 - 05/26/11 07:21 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
Shadow+Walker Offline


Registered: 04/16/09
Posts: 287
Loc: desolate foggy nights, USA
OLC,
Its good to talk to you again. Sounds like youre making progress: Teamwork, communication, goals, identifying responsibilities & independence, keeping a broadened perspective, encouraging / cheering successes, and charging your own batteries through hobbies and interests (animals and grandkids). Positive things have occured. Congratulations!

Whoohoo-hooWHHOOOO!

Peace,
Shadow+Walker

_________________________
For God did not give us a spirit of timidity, but a spirit of power, love and self discipline. (St Paul, 2Timothy 1:7) NIV

Check out a cool song by a hot band..."Unbreakable" by Fireflight: official video at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWRJAHaOrYg

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#363077 - 05/27/11 01:40 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: Shadow+Walker]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hi OLC
Nice to have you back. I am so chuffed that you are doing things for your self. It is the most important thing that you are going to do for YOU. OLC you need to remember that the H does not know how to show affection. Remember that affection was always used as a tool to inflict pain and hurt. Love is a screwed emotion, I was told often that HE "loved me, that's why I do this" So my way of showing love was to do things around the house, to buy things, to take the family to places where we didn't have to be intimate.
It was only when my wife turfed me out last year, and told me to sort out my head, that I finally sought help and treatment.(No easy thing to find in Africa)My healing comes through
1 HONESTY no more lies.
2 Talking about it.
3 Helping others cope with it.
As I say this is my personal journey. I don't think that I would have recovered if it where not for my wife's TOUGH LOVE approach. it hurt but it worked
Glad to have you back
GOD STRENGTH AND GOD SPEED
Martin

_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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#363135 - 05/27/11 06:34 PM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: whome]
OurLastChance Offline


Registered: 05/02/11
Posts: 32
Loc: USA
You know, I read back through my update from yesterday and realized that I missed a very important level of communication that my H uses. I don't know if this embarassed me to discuss so I swept past it or what, but here it is.

My husbands idea of showing me his love is not only by doing things for me, but through sex. I believe he feels that if he can satisfy us sexually, then no words need be spoken.

I also realize that he is a touchy person. He always has my hand in his while driving, he loves to hug and kiss and most times his body is touching me in some way prior to falling asleep at night. (5 languages of love?)

He communicates through his touch and I through my voice and spoken thoughts, somehow there must be a common ground we can achieve so I can get past the emotional and physical aspect of his affair.

Guess I need to head to the bookstore for sure this weekend!


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#363176 - 05/28/11 07:19 AM Re: What's 'normal' behavior for SAB survivor? [Re: OurLastChance]
whome Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/07/11
Posts: 1739
Loc: Johannesburg South Africa
Hey OLC
I can relate completely, beside the sex part. When I do get down to 'making love' then yes it is important to me that my wife has to be satisfied, or it just turns out to be what I Used to do. Sex doesn't happen often, but when it does it is great. (It is improving)

I also touch a lot. Always feel better if I touch, Hug, pinch a bum, hold a hand. Cant quite work out if it makes me feel better or if it is really for her. But it is also a justification to not have to talk, thus negating what you need.

Things have Changed a lot since I came out. I realize that my W doesn't communicate as I do, and that I need to respect her and TALK. We talk a lot more nowadays, because there isn't this wanting to hide things any more. She knows what happened, she still loves me and believe me, I finally am learning what this love thing is all about.

I see a lot of similarities in our stories, and I feel that it is important for your H to tell YOU what happened, not just for his healing but also for yours. After all the lies and deceit, and believe me there are many, It is important for your relationship, that H starts telling the truth, and the truth in all. There are things that I have chosen to do for my W and that is that my emails, phone and life are an open book. She can check to make sure I am not surfing porn, sitting on face book chatting to other ladies, and that I am not having SMS affairs with other ladies. This has been my choice to save my marriage.

I guess that My own approach to recovery has been 'DO IT OR LEAVE IT ALONE' so I personally have embraced every aspect of what I learn

The one person that stuck with me through thick and thin deserves this, and If I cant share my hurts with her, what is it all about.
Mostly I would love that you stay strong. I realize that this saps all your energy, and the Male Survivors are high maintenance. It wont help a soul if H recovers and you burn out.

BE STRONG
GOD SPEED
Martin



Edited by whome (05/28/11 07:22 AM)
_________________________
Matrix Men South Africa
Survivors Supporting Each other
Matrix Men Blog

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