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#361667 - 05/08/11 06:13 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: just me]
men_of_hrts.dbw Offline

Registered: 02/20/09
Posts: 302
Loc: Orchidland Big Island Hawaii
Peter-sometimes the insomnia and sleep cycles don't bother me but with emotional/physical pain the mental stability is shot. You've had to deal with so much. When I read all the comments I see men all helping each other over the rough stuff, sometimes barely hanging on themself, but we all know the journey.
I have some bad reactions to sleep meds, the dreams freaked me but I was so amped the herbal and behavioral remedies weren't strong enough. Once I got a grip on the many issues and conditions then the the fun began.
Herbal teas with a cinnamon stick and honey in a bowl just soaking my feet in a pan of hot soapy water. That and a lot of daytime mental relaxation.
That never happened before.
I feel for you brother, the nite owl effect sucks. Hope my thoughts are enough to comfort you.

Doug>ASA Survivor (1x)
ECV 6001/MaTuCa Chapter 1849
E Clampus Vitus
"What Say the Brethren"
"Hang the Bastards"

#362637 - 05/21/11 03:49 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: prisonerID]
CruxFidelis Offline

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
He ridiculed me for not getting an erection. Said I was not any use to my wife and that she was probably out having sex with other men because my body does not work right. I also hear stories of male rape survivors being taunted by rapists because their bodies responded with an erection. I guess we are damned if we do, damned if we don't. Words can't express the hate I'm carrying. He told me that I was cheating but that my wife was because no woman would put up with my body.

“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

#362642 - 05/21/11 04:14 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: prisonerID]
CruxFidelis Offline

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
There is a lot to think about here. I amdtoo sleepy but grateful for friends like you who tell me the truth about yourself and the truth about me. I always told my wife ithought she was a virgin even though she was raped. Even if a victim of rape has been very sexually active, they can still love truly and completely after rape. I believe that is true. I was scared to survive, not even sure it Was what I wanted but she built her life around me... not a good idea. This is coming out wrong and I am out of practice with coherent writing.

“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

#362656 - 05/21/11 10:29 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: CruxFidelis]
earlybird Offline

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 1007

I’m so sorry about the man’s evil and hurtful words. Despite the child’s limerick; “sticks and stones….” Words do really break bones. Not those that formed our frame and supports our physical bodies rather the psychological bones that give our souls, minds and hearts their pillars on which to stand and build our lives.

My friend “Bobcat” recognized a year ago, long before others, how haunted I was by the words cruelly whispered in my ear and advised me to listen to him and others instead of re-listening to my rapist’s voice. When I’d write something where I was inadvertently supporting things this man said about me during the rape Bobcat would sometimes respond to the post with only two words; “whisper, whisper”. I’m sure some wondered “what the hell” but I knew exactly what he was doing and it helped beyond measure. So, in the words of my dear friend let our voices ring louder for they are born form truth and love not wickedness and hate, you are an amazing survivor and man who is cared for by us and clearly loved and desired by his wife.

Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

#362663 - 05/21/11 01:08 PM Re: LINE!!! [Re: CruxFidelis]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma
We value you as a wonderful and supportive friend and so thrilled to see you back here.

We easily give to others what we deny to ourselves. Why talking and thinking in the third person in reference to ourselves can be helpful. If you look back on some of the thoughtful things you have written to us both here and in PMs could you put your name in there in place of another's.

It is hard, as earlybird, stated to shake those whispers or shouts. They still ring in my ears to this day and especially when triggered. But I do talk back now - no knife at my throat anymore or a gun at my head.

Talk back - he was wrong and he is still wrong.


Broad statements often miss their true mark.

#362706 - 05/22/11 01:58 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: earlybird]
CruxFidelis Offline

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
3 Purrs for Bobcat!

My therapist has asked me to write down a list of things my rapist said to me while the assaults were happening. I have remembered many of the statements and am still recalling more as my memory of the assault [unfortunately] is becoming clearer. I don't want to keep remembering things and it always seems to happen when I am in surroundings that resemble my assault (like all the time i spent in the hospital this past month.) It has been about a month since therapy and I don't know if I'm ready to go back. There are more things to add to the list.

It is like he knew everything i was insecure about and branded his fiery epithets into my already wounded ego. The things he said about the smell of my breath (who would think a guy with chronic vomiting would be insecure about that) and impotence, the unpleasantness of my body. He made me feel like I was both a sex object and at the same time invalid as a sexual being... I was either only good for his sexual use or completely useless as a sexual partner to my wife--revolting to any sane woman. He spoke about how pretty my wife was and how there was no way she would want someone like me. It made my blood boil to hear him say sexual things about my wife's body and not to be able to beat him to a pulp.

she cries a lot and says I don't pay enough attention to her. don't think she knows that all I really want is for her to touch me and prove that i am lovable. and i hate myself for being weak and needing that from a woman in order to feel like a man.

“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

#363066 - 05/27/11 02:55 AM Re: LINE!!! [Re: CruxFidelis]
Anomalous Offline

Registered: 03/07/10
Posts: 2145
My dear friend Pete,

I hardly know where to begin.

I know of your experiences, your stuggles and your strength. You are an incredibly strong and heroic individual.

The words -- the LIES -- the person who assaulted you said to you were purposefully meant to make you feel like an object. Only by objectifying you could he do the things he did.

The hurt he knew his words would have on your self esteem was one of the many ways he used to ensure your silence. That sorry excuse of a human being knew what to say to warp the reality of the situation and to add insult to injury. He knew that even after the physical act was over his words would reverberate in your mind.

As one of the guys commented regarding something you wrote, you were NOT the actor, as in the initiator, nor the responsible party to the assualts.

I know it is easy to say "don't hold yourself responsible," but many of us do.

The fact remains, you were not the responsible party. You did what you had to do to survive. That's what we all did in one form or another.

Regarding feeling like you are acting in your daily life, yes, it can feel that way. We try to be the way we were before the assault. We try to act like nothing is wrong. We try to be the rocks others expect (or we think they expect) us to be. We try to act as though it didn't happen.

But those "acts" are hurtful. They prevent us from acknowledging the deep pain caused by the assaults. And, truth be told, we aren't fooling anyone, not even ourselves.

We hold ourselves in contempt for not being able to act "well enough" to convince others that everything is ok, when it is in fact not ok. But we are really condemning ourselves to a role we cannot master. Acting as though things are ok doesn't make them so. This act has no appreicable audience. No one to recognize the hard work and preparation. No applause at the end.

It is a hollow act, for an audience of one, and that one cannot be satisfied or fooled by the actor. For we know it is an act and that we are falling short of the performance we are trying to give.

The only way to play the role is to stop acting and be who you are -- now.

It takes a lot of energy to try to maintain a façade, and that energy would be better spent working on these issues in therapy.

I know therapy can be painful. But not working on these issues is even worse. The fact that your therapist found a point of pain only shows you that there are more levels to the trauma needing work.

There is no shame in needing help to work through this.

Therapy is one of the most difficult things an individual can ever do for themselves. It is also one of the most rewarding.

As others have commented, I fear that if you leave therapy, your already small world will become even smaller, and more imprisoning. You already cut yourself off from others for reasons that do not need to be stated here. You do not need further isolation. That isolation only serves to deepen the shame - the shame is not yours.

I say these things to you as much as I say them to myself. Though the exact circumstances of our experiences may differ, there are many similarities in the effects.

I hope you can glean a glimmer of the support you give others.

Regarding what you want and need from your wife, there is nothing wrong with that. Humans need contact to be healthy. The condition that results from a lack of contact, especially when that contact is withheld early in life, is called "Failure to Thrive," but I believe a form of it can be acquired anytime during life.

You are NOT weak for wanting physical affection and attention from your wife. And it does NOT make you weak.

Having physical attention from your wife isn't to make you feel like a man, it is to let you know that you are a human being capable of being loved.

We all need loving, nurturing touch. It is part of the human condition.

From your last statements about your wife crying about you not paying attention to her and you wanting, but not receiving, the physical attention you crave, it would seem that the two of you having an honest discussion about this would go a long way for both of you.

I think it would help you to both feel less rejected, however inadvertantly, by the other, and let you each see you are craving what you need, just misinterpreting why you aren't receiving it from the other.

I know what a strong man you are. We have had many conversations and I think I understand your situation better than most. I know you are a fighter and a survivor. Please do not give up on therapy. Let your T, and others, help you reclaim what was wrongfully taken from you.



Acceptance on someone else's terms is worse than rejection.

#363127 - 05/27/11 08:00 PM Re: LINE!!! [Re: Anomalous]
CruxFidelis Offline

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ

It is comforting to hear from you, and your replies even more because they come from a trusted and valued friend. Yes, you do know a great deal about my situation and your perspective is always helpful.

I definitely am going to try staying in therapy for as long as I can. You and Earl both made comments about my world getting smaller if I stop going to therapy. I don't want that to happen and I owe so much of my recovery to his compassionate listening. It was my lifeline for many months before I could tell my family and I hope I can get back on track by having sessions that are actually productive. Today we just played catch up... updating him on how this past month has been going without analyzing any flashbacks or trauma. My wife agreed to pay for two sessions of therapy a week which sounds exhausting so I hope i can handle both the physical & emotional recovery at the same time

I don't know why it is so hard to accept that I was not the actor. He came into my room multiple times... why didn't I call for help? Why didn't I see past the threats he made? Because of the one thing he said... "No one will believe you anyway." If I called for help, and I wasn't believed, that would only bring me humiliation and death. I know a lot of us here have been there and that is why it is easier to talk about this with guys like you, who know the fear that comes when you are held hostage for all intents & purposes.

The humiliation comes & goes, but I am still here. Disclosure seems like a continual process, where I gradually let my closest family and my spouse in on why I have behaved the way I have behaved. I am beginning to see that I need to open the doors a little wider so that I can just be myself and not have to act.

Recently my wife told me that she carries resentment because to her, I have one emotion: anger. I numb out all day and pretend to smile. It's the smile my rapist forced onto my face when he told me that I had to smile while performing sexual acts with him. It was hard to smile while experiencing so much pain but I had to do it. That is the only smile I seem to have now, although I do think I feel authentic emotion around my 11 month old son. She doesnt' realize that I do have more than one emotion, I just try to be stoic about my expression.

There have been times where I have set up the day so that my wife and I have time to talk but I always chicken out on telling her that I do need touch and that I'm sorry for pushing her away. Funny, I worked up the courage to ask her out when I was an awkward teenager, but this seems like the hardest thing in my life.

I really appreciate your care and concern but wish you did not have to go through the experiences you had that gave you this knowledge.


“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

#363325 - 05/31/11 04:38 PM Re: LINE!!! [Re: just me]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
Pete...there is a lot here...but I want to ask or more so comment on one thing...

Most likly what he was saying to you..he was really saying to himself, it doesnt help much....but he was really talking to himself about how he cant do x, y and not worth x, y and Z....he projected his own insecurities about himself onto you.

Just my thought for the day...I hope you can hear all the good and all the love people have for you here.

Take the chance, tell her your felling...your need for safe touch and to know you are betting she will give you waht you need, if she knows.


#363404 - 06/01/11 02:06 PM Re: LINE!!! [Re: Castle]
Rusty563 Offline

Registered: 02/26/11
Posts: 209
Loc: Anywhere, USA

Your wife should be your most trusted friend, companion, lover, and intimate confidant and you should be the same to her.

What I'm about to suggest to help you is completely unconventional and maybe misunderstood but I remember reading somewhere that you were an opera singer. Correct? That's acting. Actors use "sense-memory" to perform in a scene. I'm not suggesting that you "act" but remember that awkward young man who had the courage to ask his girlfriend to marry him? Use that memory to give yourself the courage to talk to you wife.

Please forgive me if I have offended you in anyway and you think me mad for suggesting this but if that young man had the courage so long ago, then the man you are now, as painful as it is for you to do so, can gather that same courage to do explain to his most trusted friend, companion, lover, and intimate confidant his troubled mind.


Edited by Rusty563 (06/01/11 02:11 PM)
There is no greater agony than bearing an untold story inside you - Maya Angelous
Freedom is never voluntarily given by the oppressor; it must be demanded by the oppressed - Martin Luther King

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