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#356079 - 03/10/11 02:38 AM What I know and what I feel don't match up
Katarack21 Offline


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 25
I know all sorts of things about my experience. I know it wasn't my fault, I know there's nothing to be ashamed about, etc.

But none of this knowledge has changed how I feel about it. It's like there's a disconnect in my brain.


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#356084 - 03/10/11 07:27 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: Katarack21]
innocence Offline


Registered: 03/10/11
Posts: 3
Loc: Canada
You are wise enough to know the reality of your experience, as in it not being your fault etcetra. As for that "disconnect" brought on as a result of feelings about it that give you contradictory information about such horricic experience(s) it has been stated, and I've seen it in my life, that feelings are a bad barometer for defining what is truth. This is not to say that feelings do not have a place, such as in authentic and proper love relationships. But to rely on feelings to define or validate the truthfulness of information, that your mind is giving you is not a trustworthy way of getting the validation for what you know to be true in your mind. Trust and go with what you know in your mind is true. Feelings appear to be a distraction from the truth quite often as in the case you have brought up, sometimes fed by the wrong information recieved on such an issue or factors related to the issue. I hope this helps.

_________________________
being taught a lot of things does not constitute the learning of a lot of truth.

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#356087 - 03/10/11 07:37 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: innocence]
kb8715 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 808
Welcome to you both and best of luck in recovery.

Read the forums, meet others here in chat, consider getting a Therapist, and dn't accept that you can't heal.

You were never alone in what happened to you, how you feel, or what effects it had on you.

Best of luck to you both.

Keith




Edited by kb8715 (03/10/11 07:37 AM)
_________________________
"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my son's senior year HS Yearbook.

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#356099 - 03/10/11 10:04 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: kb8715]
jurek Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 130
Loc: New Hampshire
Hi katarack21 and innocence,
Welcome to MS. I think it's pretty common for survivors of trauma to experience the disconnect you mention, K. It's a form of dissociation I guess. Your conscious mind says, yes I get it, let's move on and think about something else, ok? But your emotional life is all out of whack and In fear and shame you blame yourself, and feel like there are threats all around. And then your actions may also be disconnected from both if you "act out" in one way or another through some sort of compulsive behavior.

This exact issue is the focus of my therapy. My therapist calls the goal thinking/feeling/doing congruence - trying to bring my thoughts, emotions and actions into some kind of integration and balance. It is very hard work but a big part of the healing journey.

I encourage you both to keep reading others' posts here and keep talking here and elsewhere (with a T experienced with working with male survivors if possible, with trusted friends). It will help you start to find a way to integrate your rational, emotional, and acting brain and become whole again.

Heal well,
George

_________________________
-jurek

Jurek ogorek, kielbasa i sznurek, kielbasa uciekla, Jurek do piekla!


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#356162 - 03/10/11 11:20 PM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: jurek]
Katarack21 Offline


Registered: 03/09/11
Posts: 25
Originally Posted By: jurek
Hi katarack21 and innocence,
Welcome to MS. I think it's pretty common for survivors of trauma to experience the disconnect you mention, K. It's a form of dissociation I guess. Your conscious mind says, yes I get it, let's move on and think about something else, ok? But your emotional life is all out of whack and In fear and shame you blame yourself, and feel like there are threats all around. And then your actions may also be disconnected from both if you "act out" in one way or another through some sort of compulsive behavior.

This exact issue is the focus of my therapy. My therapist calls the goal thinking/feeling/doing congruence - trying to bring my thoughts, emotions and actions into some kind of integration and balance. It is very hard work but a big part of the healing journey.

I encourage you both to keep reading others' posts here and keep talking here and elsewhere (with a T experienced with working with male survivors if possible, with trusted friends). It will help you start to find a way to integrate your rational, emotional, and acting brain and become whole again.

Heal well,
George


Yes, that's it, that's exactly it. My thoughts, emotions, and actions don't match up at all. What I know hasn't changed how I feel, and some of the things I do don't make any sense in light of either. I've been trying to force that connection for a while now but it just hasn't changed anything. No matter how much I tell myself these things, I still feel ashamed and guilty and everything else.


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#356164 - 03/11/11 12:50 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: Katarack21]
Riley Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 01/11/09
Posts: 597
Loc: USA
Yes. I have tried to explain this to non-survivor friends of mine.

Logic does not not dictate emotion. Just because you know something, does not make you believe it. It takes time. I have been in recovery for 2 years and my emotions are just starting to begin to catch up with my logic.


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#356172 - 03/11/11 04:10 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: Riley]
dark empathy Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2497
Loc: durham, north england
As one of my favourite philosophers' david hume said "reason is the slave of the passions" by which he meant exactly this, that logic alone does not dictate what we do or who we are.

If I might just offer an alternate idea.

I myself found that I had feelings and perceptions which simply would not! Yield to logic. There was no way I found to actually change what I felt no matter how frequently someone told me the opposite.

So, I found an alternative. Instead of trying to change my feelings by hammering away at them with logic, I decided to deal with the feelings themselves and the actions I performed relative to those feelings, the ways I coped with them, and what sprang from those feelings.

i started with the idea "so I feel this, ---- what can I do in the rest of life"

And over time, I've practiced myself some better ways of living, better coping stratogieis, different actions, changing the feelings I can! work with.

For instance, perhaps instead of just trying to change the overwhelming feeling that it was your fault, you could ask yourself how that feeling makes you act in your life, what that feeling makes you also feal and try to alter that.

For example, try to enjoy something in life more, and have more positive things around you, rather than trying to tackle the huge knot of shame head on.

i'm not sure if this will work for you, but I do offer it as an alternative.

I've noticed quite often I myself hve a tendency to think there is one, and only one way of doing things, ---- which isn't usually the case, and often realizing that I am free to make another choice, take another path and find a different solution is a very helpful thing to know.


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#356198 - 03/11/11 10:48 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: dark empathy]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Minnesota
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the shameful things he did in acting out years after the abuse-Just like me and my story. When I asked him about where that shame started, where it came from. He finally admitted the abuse from his father introduced that feeling and tied sex with unhealthy power and control and manipulation in his life .

I am guilty of the things I choose to do. The shame belongs to those who gave it to me in the abuse-they stole my innocence and natural sexuality and trust and left me with their shame, their crimes, their messed up minds who would harm a litte boy.

So in my recovery, the shame belongs back there and then. I Had to really feel this painful shut down part of me in order to expel it though -my feelings are a guide to healing if I listen to them and act responsibly to what shows up.

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#356201 - 03/11/11 11:43 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: Mountainous Buck]
jurek Offline


Registered: 08/23/10
Posts: 130
Loc: New Hampshire
My experience so far in recovery mirrors that of Mountainous Buck's. The only way out of my feelings has been through. Until I stopped trying to bludgeon my feelings into submission with the hammers of logic and until I allowed myself to really feel, and in a non-judgmental way to explore, the awful things I felt I couldn't even begin to start aligning them with my thoughts. I'm still in the process of doing that now, but I can already notice progress. I can set bad feelings aside more easily and I can ask myself, is this feeling appropriate in a gentler, kinder way. As a bonus I've gotten my compulsive acting out under control. I quit drinking, quit smoking pot, which kind of got out of control for about a year, and I've dropped a life long porn compulsion. None of these crutches seem so compelling anymore. The only way out is through. Luckily the brothers here have been through it all and we can help each other with huge amounts of collective experience and wisdom and compassion. That far outweighs the collective suffering that's here in my humble opinion.

Be well,
George

_________________________
-jurek

Jurek ogorek, kielbasa i sznurek, kielbasa uciekla, Jurek do piekla!


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#356202 - 03/11/11 11:43 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: Mountainous Buck]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
Originally Posted By: Mountainous Buck
I was talking to a friend yesterday about the shameful things he did in acting out years after the abuse-Just like me and my story. When I asked him about where that shame started, where it came from. He finally admitted the abuse from his father introduced that feeling and tied sex with unhealthy power and control and manipulation in his life .

I am guilty of the things I choose to do. The shame belongs to those who gave it to me in the abuse-they stole my innocence and natural sexuality and trust and left me with their shame, their crimes, their messed up minds who would harm a litte boy.

So in my recovery, the shame belongs back there and then. I Had to really feel this painful shut down part of me in order to expel it though -my feelings are a guide to healing if I listen to them and act responsibly to what shows up.



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#356203 - 03/11/11 11:47 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: RecoveryReady1]
RecoveryReady1 Offline


Registered: 12/05/10
Posts: 433
I was trying to quote something from your post but not able to figure out how to do that....sorry bout that...

Was wondering if you could say more about how you went about feeling that shut down part of yourself.

Thanks

Steve


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#356252 - 03/12/11 12:17 AM Re: What I know and what I feel don't match up [Re: RecoveryReady1]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1631
Loc: Minnesota
Hi steve
Probably the most important ways I have learned to feel are through stopping escapist behaviors - those interfered with my real feelings. Journaling and therapy helped, and building a community of men who could support my recovery.

Mankind Project has accelerated this process for me-thy know how to safely guide men towards more authenticity and power in their lives.

Pm mr with more questions if u want!

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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