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#356018 - 03/09/11 05:39 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
JustScott Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 01/28/08
Posts: 2614
Loc: Central PA
You're not alone Obi. I know two abusers who like the one you know, have owned full responsibility, accept everything they deserve for their horrific crime and are genuinely remorseful.

Both abide by all that is put on them because of their actions, because they know that, forgiveness or not, there are consequences that will last their lifetime.

Forgiveness is not saying, "It's ok", it's saying I choose to not let what you did to me own and control me anymore.

Forgiving really doesn't effect the other person at all. It only effects me. The best analogy I've ever heard, I heard just this past weekend, from a man who when he was 7, was locked in a closet for an entire week and repeatedly sexually violated by his two cousins who were 16 and 17 at the time.

He said this, "Un-forgiveness is like, drinking rat poison, and then getting angry that the other person doesn't die." He went on to say, that it doesn't make what they did ok, it will never be ok, and he will never have a restored relationship with them because of what they did.

What it really means, is I choose to let it go, for my benefit, it doesn't hurt or help the abuser at all.

I know some here won't agree, and that's for them to decide, but for me, I try to forgive those that hurt me, and when I see someone, like the two men I know who I know, I can forgive them too.

I hear you Obi. I understand the feelings you describe. Been there and sometimes still am!

#356021 - 03/09/11 06:11 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: JustScott]
Castle Offline

Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
This is a very difficult topic and can and does easily divide people, with that said I suggest everybody think a bit before posting.

To try and sway one persons opinion on the topic can be they are personal opinions.

Respect for peoples here..and allowing people to voice their thoughts is shouldnít feel that MS is not for them because they feel a certain way.

My personal thoughts are, this is a very tough, sore topic for me....I donít like perps, and have trouble with offending survivors, Iím always on the side of survivors. To some who think that teens acting out is ďlessĒ of abuse, or that person lacked understanding of what they were doing...minimizes the abuse I live with, and the lifelong effects. that there is good in people is of no concern for me..I donít want to know or be friendly with somebody who hurt a child for any reason.

Abuse is abuse, we survivors live with the consequences...I donít have time or energy to think about the perp or why he did what he did (even if I do think about it, its just a waste of time)...he did it for whatever reason..none will ever be good enough for me..and he can do good for the world..and yet he killed a part of me....thatís what I see. Even if he was perped first or the does not change what happened to me, nor my hurt or pain. My time is focused on healing and helping others find and move down their road.

Everybody has the right to their opinions, doesnít mean we are gonna agree.

I will not debate any of these thoughts on this thread, these are just my donít have to accept them...but I hope you respect them as mine.



#356031 - 03/09/11 08:49 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Anthony39 Offline

Registered: 02/15/07
Posts: 345
Loc: Montreal, Canada

I don't really give a rats ass about my abusers. One is dead the others I don't care to know where they are or if they are repentant. But that's between me and them. This is how I feel about it. As far as other abusers , I believe it's a pathology, no amount of prayer will modify that behaviour. I don't believe in evil or monsters because that gives them some kind supernatural attributes that doesn't make them human anymore. Most of them I'm sure live pretty normal unremarkable lives. I feel strongly about this as we all do , because of our experiences.
That being said you bring a good point. Not talking about this is not going to make it go away. We only hear about them when they get caught. I think that it is important to go at the root of the problem and make sure that there is a good social structure at the base that can protect children from becoming victims and others from becoming perps. A lot of us might have been spared a lot of trauma.

So no I don't think you should worry about being shunned or kicked out. You have your opinion and your experiences. I have mine. I may not agree with you but i'm listening and it's a dialogue and something no longer taboo. It opens the door to communication and that's all good.
Thanks for bringing this up.


Look up and not down; look forward and not back; look out and not in; and lend a hand.
E. E. Hale

#356034 - 03/09/11 09:20 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: Anthony39]
just me Offline

Registered: 05/27/09
Posts: 200
No two ways about it...this is a tough topic for many here!

I don't have anything intelligent to add...

I only post this message to offer kudos to those who have shared their perspectives with respect for others and with an understanding that there are different perspectives. Also to acknowledge that many here may feel pain or confusion by some of the feelings expressed.


My Story

#356035 - 03/09/11 11:00 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
michael Joseph Offline

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
Given all you have been through Grandson, If you can be his friend and he is working at turning his life around, then I think that you are growing more than you know. It takes a lot to do that. And everyone is not in the same place, so I would not expect everyone to do what you are doing.


Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

#356095 - 03/10/11 02:48 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: Obi]
Still Offline

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: Obi
well, since 2006, when he told me what was going on and that he was going to turn himself in, he has accepted everything that he has gotten, prison term, and has taken full responsibility.

I have been thinking about this thread...rather, this reality represented by words on our screens. I've been struggling with identifying why I feel so completely uncomfortable and freaked by this. I went back for many re-reads and some prayers about this. My conclusion, this guy has found true character (and you can tell him I said that). During the abuse, he found a hole in his character but he patched it by standing up and speaking his truth of sin.

What was freaking me out was the idea that he's a "STEPdad." As a newly divorced father of two youngsters, I put myself in the place of their biological father...whether he is a dick, drunk or dead, I see myself in his shoes. The scenario scares the living blood out of me. I have actually cried over this case and seeing my children in this scenario. I am still mourning for the stepdaughter and fearing for my own kids. I struggle to imagine my actual response to an abuser, but I fear I would not live up to God's expectations.

This just all-around sucks!

#356098 - 03/10/11 03:01 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: TheBobcatAgain]
Darkheart Offline

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 331
Loc: Illinois
Todd, my brother ...

You are more of a man than i am...I'm not there yet...i understand and support you 100%


My Story...

#356103 - 03/10/11 03:20 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: Darkheart]
Hopefulone Offline

Registered: 02/09/11
Posts: 117
Loc: Ontario
My abuser is dead. He died without ever facing what he did. I don't know if I was the only one or if there were more. I do know that the whole time he was raping me he continually said, "you're so pretty. You're just so pretty." and when I hear that in my memory...when I hear that repeated mantra running through my head I think he may have been saying it in, "god help me, I'm sorry...but you're just so pretty." sometimes I don't hear it that way...but other times I do...I hear the "you're so pretty, you're so pretty." as "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry." and it just confuses the fuck out of me. While he was viciously attacking me, was he apologizing? Was he telling me he couldn't help himself...that he was sorry but he just couldn't help himself? I always had mixed feelings. I have yet to find anger...other than anger towards myself. Is it wrong to have sympathy for a rapist who thinks it's okay to shove foreign objects where they shouldn't go? I mean, he couldn't help himself, right. He needed to do it.

I'm wounded. I am compassionate towards him some days and I hate myself on other days. I just don't know where I stand on this issue...because I can't find the anger that I should have against this man. I was afraid of him for far too long. Even when he died, I thought he could still get to me. How sick is that. I saw the sorry in his lecherous words. The sorry behind the hunger that would not be stopped. But do I want to forgive him? I can't even forgive myself. How am I going to forgive him?

Edited by Hopefulone (03/10/11 03:22 PM)

#356106 - 03/10/11 03:57 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: Hopefulone]
Still Offline

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1
Originally Posted By: Hopefulone
I hear the "you're so pretty, you're so pretty." as "I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry."

I read it as a dropping or shielding of fault for him, not a shift of fault for you to carry.

I got: "How do you let us keep doing this to you?" That one eats at me about 5 times a day.

Wriggle as they will...the damage to us is the same.

#356108 - 03/10/11 04:25 PM Re: have to say something TRIGGERS [Re: Still]
kb8715 Offline

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 811
Todd it ain't directed to you in any way.

I just can't feel any compassion for a perp, a felon, a rapist, an abuser of children, a molestor, a pedophile. Each of those terms is simply revolting.

Don't hurt kids don't hurt people.........period.

Edited by kb8715 (03/10/11 05:06 PM)
"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my son's senior year HS Yearbook.

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