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#347717 - 12/10/10 07:02 AM I don't fit in these catagories (TRIGGER WARNING)
goodbyehorses Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: Northern California
I found this website from an "Oprah" episode that a friend insisted I watch. I feel like a real scumbag. I have been in therapy for sexual issues for 6 months but I question my progress. I question whether I am actually a victim or a perpetrator. After reading peoples stories I feel like my abuse story is weak. At times I was the defender, other times the offender.
I grew up in abusive families with constant domestic abuse until my parents divorced when I was 2 years old. I lived with mom and her alcoholic boyfriend (my step dad). At age 3, during a family christmas party, stepdad was drunk and I made the mistake of calling my mom a "bitch". My stepdad picked me up and took me into the kitchen where he proceeded to bash my head against the table, leaving a 5" scar across the back of my head (as a reminder of where I came from). At age 4, my 4 year old female cousin came to live with us, she had been repeatedly victimized by heroin junkies and I believe she was my first sexual experience. Later mom got arrested on LSD&coke and lost custody of us.
My real dad, the bar hopper, was addicted to the night life and always found a neighbor to keep an eye on me and my older brother. Around age 5, a neighbor took me in his shed, gave me oral sex and penetrated me with his fingers. After that I started acting out on kids, male or female, at babysitters', giving oral sex. I have several short memories of doing this at various sitters. At age 7, an 8-year-old stepbrother began molesting me. I speculate he must have been an abuse victim by the actions he was doing to me. This happened daily for 2 months, for hours at a time sometimes. It started out very weird for me, but felt very good physically, and after weeks I thought I felt love for him. My dad and his mom split up, and I missed him and fantasized about him often. A year later at age 8, I had a new stepbrother who was 9 years old. I did the same actions to him which had been done to me, including the exact phrases to get it started. He did not like it or participate much, and told within a month. His mom and my dad split up and I was sent to counseling, where I would practice staring at the wall and not saying a single word at every session. Years passed, during which I fantasized about the situations I had experienced. At age 11, I molested a step-sister who was 7 years old, giving her oral sex. After a few months her mom and my dad split up.
At age 12, the internet and chat rooms came out, and while searching the chatrooms list I was enticed by the words "preteen-sex-pics". I entered this room, and found I could type in a phrase and a bot would send pictures of child pornography. There were many chatrooms similar to this with hundreds of bots freely sending pornography across the internet. I spent alot of time looking at pornography, and children in particular which aroused me, and brought back childhood memories. During the situations it felt wrong, but fantasizing about them later it felt like they were providing love and attention that I craved.
Soon after at age 13, I began drinking heavily, smoking pot, and doing very hard drugs. I molested my 9 year old brother with oral sex, and at the time I knew I was older and it was not right. I was in constant fear and regret after that. That was the last time I touched a child. I continued using drugs and looking at child pornography into adulthood until I quit the hard drugs at age 20. I never had any parental support my entire life, and felt suicidal when I was not using. I have cut my wrists a few times, and burned very deep scars into my arms and legs during my teens. It was always for "attention", yet I was too tough to allow anyone to find out I was doing those things.
Around age 26, a girlfriend of 3 years found child porn on my computer. She told my mom, who questioned me, and I told her everything about my growing up. She was devastated. Life went on, I never again kept child porn on my computer but searched it out weekly to fulfill the urge. By age 28, I broke up with the girlfriend, and a couple months later she told one of my friends about my porn problem. This was December 2009 my world came crumbling down. It spread like wildfire thru my friends, associates, and everyone I had met in the last 15 years, the people I considered family. I never relied on my actual family because I had these people for support. They all turned on me. They labeled me a child molester and made plans on me. 2010 has definitely been the most horrific year of my life. I rarely left my house, for my safety, and was suicidal again and hurting myself until I was able to get sober in June. Since being sober I have been able to let go of some of the past, and had the courage to seek out help for my problems. I am in low-cost counseling and seeking a recovery group. I have never known whether to label myself a victim or abuser since I have been both. Most people hear the word child porn, and its a death sentence. Google news search "pornography" and see how many people are getting arrested for it, yet help groups are few and far between. I am on my own in this, as I have always been.



Edited by TJ jeff (12/10/10 02:05 PM)
Edit Reason: edited to add trigger warning

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#347719 - 12/10/10 08:32 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: goodbyehorses]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
You are not alone, gbh.

I am glad you are sober today-

For those of us who are compulsive sexually and seek escape thru drugs,'alcohol, and/or sex, staying abstinence, sober, and working a rigorous program is the tried and true way to clarity, peace,'and a life worth living.

Just know for today that you are not unique and that there is hope-you are taking steps to make better things possible.


**I'm headed to a 12 step meeting this afternoon for sexual addiction in a state prison unit for offenders. I know their stories are not much different that mine, except I acted out in different ways.

I also have brothers in my groups who have gone to prison or are facing prison for child porn-this is SERIOUS stuff.

As with any recovery, we have to be willing to face the truth about ourselves ruthlessly and seek help as though our lives depended on it.

I am glad you found MS.



Edited by Mountainous Buck (12/10/10 11:01 AM)
_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#347724 - 12/10/10 09:13 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Mountainous Buck]
Still Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 02/16/07
Posts: 7011
Loc: FEMA Region 1
As a survivor of abuse by older boys, I'm not sure what to say...what to think. I do know, just by the numbers involved, that you are not alone.

The 7 year-old in me retreats in fear.

The adult me says "I truly truly want to see you getting serious and personal help." A therapist will work wonders, a group experience.

You have taken a great leap forward by writing what you just did. I'm sure it was not easy. Please...keep the momentum going.


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#347726 - 12/10/10 09:45 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Still]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
GBH,

Welcome to MS, You will find support here.

I too had similiar abuses and assaults as you have had.

I am sorry you experienced such atrocities. It is a terrible thing that the man and the woman who called stepdad and mom hurt you - an innocent little boy. Any shame you might feel about this belongs to them. My mom dislocated my right hip by herself when I was 2.5, shame on them.

You are apart of this community.

Be gentle with yourself.

Peace,
Donnie



Edited by Avery46 (12/10/10 09:55 AM)
_________________________
aka DJsport

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#347733 - 12/10/10 10:22 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Avery46]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
HMMMMMM

this is very difficult for me as your story has a few very triggering parts specific to me, and the abuse I endured.

First off..You should put a seriouos trigger warning on this post or a mod should/would.

Secondly...I believe the term would be "Offending survivor" but other could correct me if I'm wrong.

Third...You can apply with Ken Singer to becoome part of the at-risk forum....where some of your issues can be discusse further.

I am sad for the survivor side of you...but the offending side really hurts...if we are to be honest.

This is not ment to hurt you or make it worse, but I live by honesty here...or try to the best of my ability.

I at least commend you honesty.

Have you taken resposibility to the people you hurt and let them know?

_________________________
.

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#347740 - 12/10/10 10:54 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Castle]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
GBH....

I would like to say thanks for being brave and stating the facts. You will find that you are not alone in what you have done. Please remember that at 13 you were just a child. A Child that was a Victim of a terrible thing. You only were doing what you had been taught. Use this website to gain knowledge of how others have been effected by their abuse. If you are not in counseling you need to get started if at all possible. And always remember that if you are truly sorry for what you have done that God knows your heart. Ask for His forgiveness if you haven't already. He is faithful to forgive if we ask. And also learn to forgive yourself. I will be your friend to listen if you need to talk.

Tim


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#347746 - 12/10/10 11:27 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
HMMMMMMM x2

wayne,

I have issues with a bunch of your thoughts...sorry.

He said that at 13 he knew he was doing wrong...whether its due to his abuse..Im not exactly sure.

I dont think he needs to ask "god" for forgiveness nor is he "allowed" to ask those who were acted upon for forgiveness...but I was discussing taking accountability to people who were hurt and acteed upon. I know right now I wont accet a sorry, but accountability Ive been trying to get for a bit now without success.

Indeed this is very difficult territory, and if one post this info, a different viewpoint is going to surface. I do commend his courage to engage in the topic.

"A Child that was a Victim of a terrible thing. You only were doing what you had been taught."

This troubles me a lot, and quite possibly is my issue...IDK...but not a great message to put out there. In my mind there is no excuse for abuse..I can see why some might act out...but certainly not an excuse.

I dont think I was rude or anything, but stated my feelings.

EDITED to add from site guidlines:
At Risk Forum

The At Risk Forum is for survivors who have done inappropriate, harmful, or abusive behavior to others in their childhood or adolescence, or have acted out sexually through certain behaviors that may be causing shame. This is also for survivors who are experiencing feelings or thoughts of acting out sexually on another person.

Due to the sensitive nature of some of the discussions in At Risk, admission to post or read is by application to the moderator. You must be a paid member of MaleSurvivor (limited scholarship funds are available for those who cannot afford membership) and the person must let Ken Singer know why he wants access. Information shared within this forum is to remain confidential and is not to be shared with anyone outside of this forum.




Edited by Castle (12/10/10 11:39 AM)
Edit Reason: add info about at risk from site guidlines
_________________________
.

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#347748 - 12/10/10 11:59 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Castle]
tommyb Offline


Registered: 11/29/10
Posts: 815
Loc: American South
__________


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#347753 - 12/10/10 12:58 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: tommyb]
kb8715 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/16/10
Posts: 808
It's great there is honesty offered as a real form of support. I think both Jamie & Harris gave good input. You acknowledge a real serious problem, now do everything you can to get help and kill the monster.

I would honestly encourage those of you triggered by Horses to keep giving him your feedback, don;t back away. Jamie said once we should all:

Face Everything And Recover (FEAR).

CSA is so bloody ugly....God it is awful. I guess my point is if it hurts to heal (and oh yeah it does) then we got to take on the pain and keep working it.

Be well all.....Keith

_________________________
"You can get far in life by pushing except through a door marked PULL...." Profile quote in my son's senior year HS Yearbook.

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#347754 - 12/10/10 12:59 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: tommyb]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Castle,

I never said anything about being excused. I simple stated the fact that he was copying the things that was done to him. At 13 years old...yes he may have known what he was doing was wrong but do you really believe he had any clue as to the after effects of this. I for one know that my CSA went on from the age of 8-12 years old. I never tried to stop it but had I really truthfully understood what it was going to do to me I would without a doubt stopped it or at least tried to.

As for God and forgiveness.....Mine and your beliefs my vary somewhat. Asking for forgiveness is helpful in our on feelings of guilt that we may feel even if we where not a fault. If you believe the Bible as Gods word than at some point you have to except "sorry" if it is truly from the heart. I for one am having problems with this in my on life. I know I need to forgive Him (the abuser) but don't know that I have gotten there yet.

As for your thinking that my post was not a "great thing to put out there". Sorry if I offended anyone but my take on all this is that Goodbyehorses found MS and was looking for help. What I tried to give him was encouragement. Not sure about everyone else here but I know as for myself I need that.


Tim


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#347756 - 12/10/10 01:33 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
nltsaved Offline


Registered: 08/26/08
Posts: 917
Loc: Kc,Mo
i can relate to your story on many levels , you are not alone AT ALL !! there are many here that have struggled with the same things . i at one point found myself getting deeper and deeper into porn. it started to border on the line of child porn and when it started getting that deep i had to stop and realize where that addiction was taking me . the flesh always wants more and is never satisfied with what it has . it always wants more and wants to take it to the next level and if if had not sought out help God only knows where it would have ended up .

as fare as you acting out whether you knew better or not you could not have really known any better than you were taught . that is why you did those things. you might of had a sense that something was not right about it but at the excact same time you rationalized it because that what was done to you. you were not at fault at all.
those things confuse you so much that the sense of right and wrong have been compromised . all of the abuse you suffered at such young age became your "normal" and that is what you have to realize that the "normal" you experienced led to those acts. i mean come on you began looking at the same material that you where indoctrinated with so it is and should be no surprise to you that you did exactly what was ingrained into you.

now being older you can no longer live like this you must retrain your brain you must undo all the damage that was done to you buy learning healthy ways to experience your sexual needs .

i am for one very proud of you for being BOLD enough with us here and Bold enough to reach out and seek help . this is an area that needs addressing because the alternative is to become a molester yourself. so people who do not addmitt this and go on with these demons haunting them will eventually give into these desires.

if you chose not to get help and reach out than and only than do we have the right to be angry with you . knowing the pain this all causes people is the reason one reaches out to get help because their compassion to the issue is greater than there need to fulfill this false sense of reasoning and desire. i thank you for seeking that help and having that compassion to realize your issue is not bigger than the damage that this could not only cause you but others .

may God have a hand in your life and your recovery brother. come to him and acknowledge him in ALL your ways and he will direct your path. i do believe he has already directed you here

you have brothers here that will help reach out my hand is extended

ps
i blessed to be one of the 200 men who went to on the show to do my part in extending my hand to those in need it looks like the show is doing its part



Edited by nltsaved (12/11/10 01:25 AM)
Edit Reason: spelling
_________________________
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n-uYCAfpxrY
TRIGGER WARNING
Video of me telling my story
you are not alone never were
WRITTEN FORM
http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=339159#Post339159
Why i hate Religion but love Jesus
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1IAhDGYlpqY

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#347757 - 12/10/10 01:36 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
Castle Offline


Registered: 10/03/09
Posts: 758
Tim,

I can agree to disagree..thats cool..but a few points.

maybe it hit a little to home for me....but I was abused by my brother when I was 8ish and he 12ish..and honestly..I dont really care what he was thinking about..all I know is I have lifelong issues because of it.

Once I confronted him I asked for acknowledgment of the abuse not a sorry and can not get it.

secondly,

yes our beliefs as far as religion are way different and I accept that.

However:
I reject the view that if an offender makes good with god, thats enough or good enough.

I do not believe in a god or the bible so we can just agree to disagree.

I also think people confuse forgivness....it is written about here at ms and other places and a search can be made.

I too want GBH to get some help..and I thought I offered some insigh into MS and some sections for help. I'm sorry if some here see me as judging..we are all entitled to our opinions and to voice them....if you know me, have chatted with me, you might have a different opinion of me.

Just as one side note...it was relayed to me from a professional known in the field that offenders have no right really to ask a survivor for forgiveness...if there is forgiveness its based on the survivor NOT the offender. I mearly suggested while some survivors reject sorry they can get great stregnth from acknowledgment of wrong doing.

I'm happy and see growth in myself that I can discuss this rationally even if others don't see it that way.

Edited to add:
Seems maybe Im just too triggered by this story/thread....I stand by my words but am sorry if I offended anybody...i wont add anything else to it



Edited by Castle (12/10/10 02:19 PM)
_________________________
.

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#347763 - 12/10/10 02:19 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
michael Joseph Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
it is difficult when a child is hurt

and then the info they were given

by the adult they use with other children

an 8 year old is not a perp their abuse caused them to
repeat what was done, he needed help and seems that he
is doing a lot to stop what had happened when he was young

_________________________
Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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#347764 - 12/10/10 02:26 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: Castle]
kidneythis Offline


Registered: 11/08/09
Posts: 1558
Well for one your story is similar to mine in that abuse seems to have been a part of your life from the start. I couldn;t read it all I've become far to empathic and it was triggering me.
I'm still stuck in flashbacks and don't have full recall yet but I was used for sex by family and caretaker alike. I suspect the family abandoned me in the institution where the abuse was systematic and my memory was destroyed with ECT to coverup the abuse they put me through. Memory destruction and the insecurity and general sense of not being the same as, it causes is probably the biggest problem I face. I think this, memory destruction and undermining of the learning process is something that is known in abuse circles in method if not in understanding of mechanism that will destroyt the childs ability to communicate properly. I know many remember all of it and I regard that as lucky, but understand the desire of those who do to not recall it.

Anyway All of our stories are different yet the effect of it is similar. Someone who was abused by being the recipient of sexual stimulation once, can be just as damaged as someone who was made to perform for years. Its all relative there is no direct comparison so I'm suggesting that you look for the similarities and take those you find but do not reject us because of the disimilarities as they really do not matter and well we will support you and understand the deep inner wounds that no one else seems able to.

_________________________
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

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#347768 - 12/10/10 02:53 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: kidneythis]
wayne9 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/14/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
Castle,

I am sorry you didn't get what you needed from him when you confronted him. I have never confronted mine even though he is at a place that I could. I won't push my beliefs on you but do want you to know that I care about you and every other victim that post on MS. I really meant that Horses needed to ask God for forgiveness from God. Not from the victim. These was meant that Horses could get started on recovery for himself. I myself struggle with guilt I feel for myself and guilt that I feel for letting this whole thing control my life for 40 years. That my seem strange to most here but that is a big problem for me. I have spoken with you in Chat before and hope we still can. Wasn't trying to start anything negative. We all have enough negative things in our past already. Hope everyone has a great weekend. I probably won't be online through the weekend.......fighting porn addiction still....can't carry laptop home........

Tim



Edited by wayne9 (12/10/10 02:55 PM)

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#347794 - 12/10/10 08:40 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
goodbyehorses Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/10/10
Posts: 26
Loc: Northern California
Thanks everyone for the responses. I appreciate the encouragement and the honesty. Last year at this time all I wanted to do was hide from reality; the fact that I had lived through that childhood and was still looking at the pornography. Since being sober I have had the courage to seek help. I have been able to be honest with my therapist, AA sponsor, and family, but I still feel I am lacking the help I have sought. After reading the stories I feel somewhat like an outcast. I don't know why I acted out at such a young age, I wish I would have only been a victim, then I would feel much better about the situation.
I raised myself; got myself up for school, did my homework, and made myself dinner. Later I felt stronger then others for doing so. I never looked at the sexual situations as being a victim, I couldn't submit to that. After all I survived through how could I be a victim. All I know is I always felt bad about it, and was forever labeled "shy". No one wondered why I was "shy". No one was there to catch me looking at the pornography, but if I knew then what I know now, I would never have started. I would never have acted out on other children, especially my little brother who I have to face often.
I often wonder about the kids I abused and how it effected their lives. I am on the 9th step in AA -making amends to those I have harmed. I am not asking for forgiveness, I am just letting them know that I accept what I did was wrong. Whether they choose to forgive me is up to them, I am only cleaning my side of the street. I can't take away the past, I can only be the best person I can from today forward, which includes never passing on the feelings I have suffered through.


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#347796 - 12/10/10 09:04 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: goodbyehorses]
Mountainous Buck Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/15/09
Posts: 1627
Loc: Minnesota
Wow GBH: sounds like you have worked a program of recovery diligently the past 12 months-I feel proud for you, man. Facing our past, our part, and asking to be taken to a better place are HUGE.

"More will be revealed" is the statement that resounds the loudest for me in my recovery journey-there are some things we just aren't ready to see....YET.

Admitting your wrongs is another major step to restoring relationships and bringing about healing. You are learning skills for life that some never get the chance to learn.

It's hard to see ourselves as victims when we've acted out so much: but cleaning up your side of the street means that stuff won't be flying around your head anymore, needing to be sedated.

One day at a time, GBH.

Jamie

_________________________
We have to take responsibility for what we're not responsible for.

�It doesn't matter where you've come from,
It matters where you go" Frank Turner

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#347826 - 12/11/10 10:48 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: goodbyehorses]
ErickW Offline


Registered: 11/06/10
Posts: 15
Loc: Fl
Originally Posted By: goodbyehorses
but if I knew then what I know now, I would never have started. I would never have acted out on other children, especially my little brother who I have to face often.

That tells me a lot. Just know you not alone


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#347846 - 12/11/10 03:43 PM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: wayne9]
derrick Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/10
Posts: 94
Loc: North Carolina
GBH

welcome to MS your with men who can identify with you

some have us have had sucess and checking out sexual 12 step programs


Heal Well

Derrick

_________________________
My Story http://www.malesurvivor.org/board/ubbthr...5766#Post335766

Alumnai of May 2011 DAHLONEGA (a life changeing event)
Alumnai of October 2010 WOR Hope Springs
Dahlonega

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#347986 - 12/13/10 10:14 AM Re: I don't fit in these catagories [Re: goodbyehorses]
Avery46 Offline


Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: goodbyehorses
...I feel somewhat like an outcast.


I too have felt this way. While, I do not share some of the same issues as you do, I am still getting to know what happened to me.

As MB stated, this to will be "revealed" to you. You are right where you need to be although it may NOT seem like it.

I am glad your taking the steps - 12 steps - as they will guide you to your truth.

I am in the process myself of finding my truth of being "out". Let us all including you be oh so gentle with ourselves.

Peace,
Donnie

_________________________
aka DJsport

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