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#345921 - 11/21/10 03:28 PM Was I .....
earlybird Offline

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 1007
Earlier this week on an easy, lazy afternoon I received and email from a fellow survivor. We have, over the past year, had some very deep and intense conversations as we have struggled to work out our recoveries. We make an odd pair him and me. One of us sees the world through the lens of faith the other a more earthy view. But through the grace of both he and I we have been able to walk together pointing to vistas of hope and discussing ideas of growth, not despite our differences but because of them.

Anyway, I’m off task, I just was setting the table with the proper arrangements of spoons, forks and knifes. One thing that MS has taught me is to eat a meal with only one utensil is a messy unproductive chore. Can it be done? I guess - but why?

Back to the email that blew my comfortable day to tiny particles of rising dismay and grading grief as the winds of past moments whirled around me. My MS companion and friend asked me about my story. He knew I was an ASA and he a CSA and in a show of compassion and love for me he wanted to know more about the rape. He was seeking information so as to understand my plight and struggles as an ASA. I thumped my thumps on my desk running risk management concepts of potential rejection and abandonment if we were to re-travel this path. You see, he and I had kind of gone into a natural orbit passing each other every so often touching with gentle words then moving on. It was warm, comfortable and pretty risk free.

I went back to my posting of “the story” copied it and sent it along with a new email, and then waited and waited and waited. I was crawling inside ants of anxiety skittering through veins reaching the depths of all my fears as I waited. I fell into my own trap of irrational fears of abandonment over the next couple of hours – waiting.

Then it came, his reply. And this is the email I’d not been prepared for.

His words were gentle and thoughtful as he asked me what must have seemed like an obvious question. One that I’d never considered or had been asked before. “Had I been drugged prior to the rape” Then he continued point by point separating my story into sections and then plugging in comments that questioned my reactions. Not questioning, the truth of what I had said but doubting, if I hadn’t been drugged, my body and mind's reactions or lack of reactions to the events happening. Absorbing this new potential scenario was devastating!

I left work early, I was now useless, and spent the rest of the day and night running each moment of that event. My sluggish movements when I tried to break free. My other worldly floating away as the raping continued. The fogginess and crazy making mistakes I made afterwards when I was making my escape. Things that never made sense and were unreasonable actions could now be explained away. If only I could ever know the answer to his question but this is a resolution that will always elude my grasp.

I bring this up not to say I was drugged but I’ve never heard it talked about here on MS. It may have been but if so I’ve missed the conversation. I wonder if others wonder or know if they were drugged. Is this something we would benefit by discussing together as brothers who bring different utensils to the feast?

Thanks to my fellow survivor for raising this question and to others here on MaleSurvival for adding sustenance to my life, Earlybird

Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

#345924 - 11/21/10 05:26 PM Re: Was I ..... [Re: earlybird]
Ever-fixed Mark Offline

Registered: 01/02/10
Posts: 732
Loc: United States
This is a worthwhile discussion. Just prior to my perpetrator taking me up to the hotel room, we ate dinner at the very nice restaurant downstairs. I never got to eat out and to my 12 year old eyes it was like another world.

When we did get up to the room I was feeling very free and I'd always put it down to being given some attention and getting out of the institution for even a day. A little later though, I began to feel very foggy. Just after that began to happen is when he made his move.

At dinner I vaguely remember wanting to try things, just as later I innocently wanted the big bed in the hotel room. I didn't even understand what sex was at this stage. I was out of "jail" so why not make the most of it? I have wondered if he gave me some alcohol, or some other drug, since from a certain point my reactions and memories become a blur.

At first, whether he did or didn't doesn't feel like it changes much for me, after sitting with it for a while I think there is some work for me to do around this. Sigh. But back to my point, from what I've learned so far about ASA survivors whether drugs were involved or anything that impairs their volition and ability to defend themselves is a Big Deal. For ASA survivors it's literally about survival and the fear of extinction.

I'm grateful to the survivor who prompted this line of thought for you, Earlybird, and now for me also. This is why this community is so important.



Everybody here's got a story to tell
Everybody's been through their own hell
There's nothing too special about getting hurt
Getting over it, that takes the work

- "Duck and Cover" by Glen Phillips

#345943 - 11/21/10 09:14 PM Re: Was I ..... [Re: Ever-fixed Mark]
CruxFidelis Offline

Registered: 06/16/10
Posts: 486
Loc: NJ
Hi earlybird,

The question of whether or not drugs were involved in the sexual assault crossed my mind. There is paperwork concerning my case that might contain information but I am scared to look at it. I haven't read through it and I shouldn't be scared. Why would I not want to see what happened to me written down on a chart, in "clinicalese." Sometimes I think seeing it all written down might help me see what happened in a different way but I am scared it might hit me too hard. Maybe one of these days i'll see if there's an answer to the questions in my head.

I don't know if drugs were involved. I know I was on some very heavy pain medication during my time in the hospital, but what he did to me was the most physically painful thing I've ever endured, it either broke through whatever relief the pain meds gave me or he must have done it at a time where there weren't enough meds in my system because it HURT.

Earl, even if you were not on drugs, it was still not your fault. I could see how knowing that you were drugged might mitigate some of the guilt that's been plaguing from you. Your story about going through every detail of your rape just makes my heart ache for you. I have tried to do that inside my head but I can't seem to fit all the pieces together in any coherent way. I have tried writing a chronological account of what happened to me and I can't. I can only write bits and pieces, short vignettes of horror. I admire that youa re able to go through your experience, and to look at it with a new lens, kind of like when you go to the eye doctor and he puts different pre>
“If a man wishes to be sure of the road he treads on, he must close his eyes and walk in the dark.”

- Saint John of the Cross

#346014 - 11/22/10 08:28 PM Re: Was I ..... [Re: earlybird]
Lesser1 Offline

Registered: 11/01/10
Posts: 19
Thank you for posting this. I have the utmost respect for your courage in sharing this.
The question literally brought me chills. I wasn’t triggered but rather I completely understand your moment of realization. I was drugged. To say it has made the recall process difficult would be an understatement. To me, it is like a cutting room floor where various scenes from an awful night are jumbled in a pile. The fragments are enough to know what happened and that it happened, but it makes determining chronology extremely difficult. In addition to the events, these fragments contain what I was thinking, how I felt to -include dissociation and various things from environment (ie. Light level, smell, temperature). These contributing factors have aided in putting things in a more logical order, but unfortunately (or possibly fortunately) there is still a great deal missing. While the drug I was given has made things difficult and adds another component of being violated, it was strangely a blessing. Blessing in that:
1) Memory was blocked until I reached a point in my life where I could better handle it. Had I remembered then, I truly doubt I would be alive.
2) Had I remembered then, my very life would have been in jeopardy.
There is another aspect to this which has troubled me, to the point of no longer disclosing – “Convenience”. When telling someone what happened, stating I was drugged or details surrounding it seems like a convenient excuse. I could be reading more into the hearers verbal/non-verbal reaction, but it feels like a cheap attempt to dig up an acceptable reason for what happened. It is only on that point I envy our CSA brothers. What sane person holds any blame on a child for something so horrible? Being an adult somehow lays responsibility on me. Having to come up with a reason to put the blame where it belongs raises too many doubts and questions. Thus my ‘excuse’ of drugs only looks like finger pointing. It is too dirty for the public to consider. Thus, I am reduced to “dirty”, used and without justice. Thanks to your post, “alone” is no longer in that list.


#346030 - 11/23/10 12:14 AM Re: Was I ..... [Re: Lesser1]
prisonerID Offline
Greeter Emeritus

Registered: 02/17/08
Posts: 1247
Loc: Oklahoma

It hurts me that a man, any man, would feel he has the need to have an excuse for being assaulted. I would hastily add that my attackers had a gun and a knife. I wanted to make sure the therapist understood that. I was obsessed with it. It seemed to give me my "excuse".

Your being drugged is a part of your violation by another. It is an evil act by an evil person. It is a part of the story of your assault. But no one with any true intelligence would think you were digging for an excuse. No matter what the blame is on the person who drugged and attacked you.

This is a brave post and I admire you for it. I was not drugged but my heart goes out to those who were. I think it is more widely practiced with men who are assaulted than what people may perceive it to be.

Do we hear the warning that women are given? Is a man told to not leave a drink unattended? Is a man told to only accept a drink directly from wait staff? Yet the dangers for him are just as real as they are for a woman.

This is an important topic and awareness must be raised for it.


Broad statements often miss their true mark.

#346046 - 11/23/10 01:27 PM Re: Was I ..... [Re: prisonerID]
earlybird Offline

Registered: 02/18/10
Posts: 1007
Thank you to EFM, Crux, Lesser1, and Prisoner for your thoughts and insights. Les, you and I have not had the pleasure of talking. Something in particular you brought to this conversation strummed across my chest like a guitar player who swipes a strident cord.


I’ve been sitting on that word most of the night into the early hours. Trying to make sense of why it grinds through my ears. Then you went on to say:

“cheap attempt to dig up an acceptable reason for what happened”

Another powerful note struck. Am I trying to justify? Find an acceptable reason for not defending myself? Is this what I’m doing a cheap shot at being overpowered? Ya, I’ll be running those thoughts around for a while. Les, thank you for sharing these thoughts of yours. For the questions were there deep inside of me I just hadn’t had it brought to the surface to evaluate – judge – accept or reject. Now the work begins.

I would like to add one more thing to put a slight tweak to something you said.

“What sane person holds any blame on a child for something so horrible? Being an adult somehow lays responsibility on me.”

The key word you used and I don’t want it missed is “What SANE person…” Unfortunately from the things I’ve read on this site from my CSA brothers is that plenty of people (Sane or not) have found the horrible ability to blame the child victim. Many were/are blamed by the other parent, by family members, friends, and even spouses/partners. But I wonder if the most aggressive accuser of the victim both in the CSA and ASA world is ourselves, well for me this has been an issue.

Edited by earlybird (11/23/10 01:28 PM)
Balanced (My goal)

There is symmetry
In self-reflection
Life exemplified
Grace personified

#346066 - 11/23/10 09:24 PM Re: Was I ..... [Re: earlybird]
SamV Offline

Registered: 12/13/09
Posts: 5971
Loc: Sunnny, South East USA

Our long term abuser is 'Self, without a doubt.

Nice post, Eeb's, well put, and the replies, insightful.


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