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#335625 - 07/08/10 08:50 PM To those angry at God - Possible triggers
Pattycakes Offline

Registered: 05/23/10
Posts: 109
Loc: Canada
I do not believe in organized religion. My personnal religious beliefs, I keep to myself.

I have read a few posts by the guys here about Free Will and God. About being angry at God. It might be that some people mistake Free Will for Age of reason.

Here is what a survivor wrote in his post:

(quote ) I can accept the free will argument when it comes to the actions of my cousin. God did not make him groom me and then seduce me forty years ago. He chose to do that. But where was God when I chose to please my cousin?

At eight years old, how did I have the knowledge to make a choice of whether or not to let him put his penis in my mouth? How would any eight year old child have any idea of the repercussions that choice would make? For a kid it's, "My cousin is a teenager and he's cool, and he'll like me if I do what he wants." No child could know how making that decision would follow them the rest of their lives. No child. (unquote)

I believe that Free Will is the freedom of choice, it is the most common definition, right? So, a baby chooses to throw his food on the ground to see what mommy or daddy is going to do. Whatever a baby or a young child does, it is spontaneous, it is out of their own free will. Would you ask a 4 year old to chose their carreer? Would you ask them to choose between drinking milk or poison? Why not? Because even though they have their free will, they have not reached the age of reason for these specific decisions.

I think there are many ages of reason. Some decisions can be taken at a younger age than others. To engage in sexual behavior is not a choice that can be made FREELY at the same age as picking which clothes to wear to school, let's say.

Even if it's a bit hard to do, it would be nice if the guys here gave it a thought. How you 'chose' to respond to the abuse was never a choice to begin with. I don't think it is a question of free will because free will implies to be free to make a decision. No child who's going through csa is ever free during or after the abuse. However they respond to the abuse is never a choice, it is always a matter of survival and adapting to the situation with the tools they have at their AGE. So if you hadn't reached the age of reason for a specific decision, any decision you made wasn't of your own free will.

Just my two cents. I believe Free Will and the Age of Reason are latters. You start with the small stuff and move up.

I'd like to know what you guys think. Not just the survivors, everyone in the F&F forum as well.


If you judge people, you have no time to love them.-Mother Theresa

#335634 - 07/08/10 10:43 PM Re: To those angry at God - Possible triggers [Re: Pattycakes]
hannah7 Offline

Registered: 02/19/10
Posts: 30
I agree w/Pattycakes. The sexual acts were imposed on the child. The child, however he reacts to the abuse is truly not in a postion to analyze his response until probably now, at the age of reason. This is where the guilt and condemnation, self-hate and rage at self, perp and God may come to play.

First of all if the child responsed in a 'favorable' manner, for lack of a better term, it was probably because he was craving the love and attention of the person sexualizing him. He may have adored him. It was all about love and looking for it in all the wrong places. But a child cannot decipher this at the time its all going down, even though they may have had the intuitive feeling that this was not 'right.'

To think about 'where was God' in all of this, I love the story of Joseph in the Bible. He had sibling hate and abuse, sold into slavery and molested and accused of rape by an authoritive figure, then left to rot in jail because of it. What is so interesting in this narrative is HOW Joseph reacted to it all.
"My God, my God, why have you forsaken me" is not only coming from the lips of Jesus on the Cross but from all of us who have experienced something horrendous and wondered why God didn't stop it.

God didn't answer Joseph in technicolor or text message or even angels or a voice from heaven. Joseph had to bang out his life one day at a time and watch how "God took something the enemy meant for evil and turned it out for the good-- of many."

That statement alone has given me the courage and hope to press on in the journey of my own life's struggles, no matter how dark, and have the belief that God sees all, holds all in His Hands. Somehow, somehow He will untangle all that mass of garbage and in the end, we will say it happened, yes, but God CAN make something good out of chaos and destruction.

Without hope the heart can't go on. Hope deferred makes the heart sick.

Compassion International president, Wess Stafford tells his story of prolonged abuse at the hands of missions staff in Africa in the May issue of Christianity Today. He is the president of such an organization to help children like himself because of what he went through. When we can turn our pain into salvaging others lives from the very thing, it has to be a blessing and part, I say 'part' of the healing.

My 2 cents.

And again and again Jesus said: It is I, I that you love, I that you enjoy, I that you serve. It is I that you long for, I that you desire, I that you mean. It is I that am enough for you. (Julian of Norwich)

#335674 - 07/09/10 04:59 PM Re: To those angry at God - Possible triggers [Re: hannah7]
wayne9 Offline

Registered: 05/15/08
Posts: 161
Loc: alabama
First I would like to say that “I” have ask the same question….”why did God let something happen to Me at the age of 8 years old that would control so much of my life for so many years”?
The only answer I have is we have to go all the way back to “the fall” of Man. God creative Adam and Eve. Placed them in the Garden and gave them everything they needed to survive. Everything also included freedom to choose to have life as they knew it or choose to go against what God had told them not to do, which would introduce Man to sin and death. They choose death and from that point on Man has had to deal with sin and all the results of it. Also what has to be took into consideration is the rebellion of Lucifer against God. Which is really were it all can be traced back too. The Bible tells us that Lucifer (Satan) is the prince/ruler of the air/earth.
There was no evil, murder, rape, stealing, envy, hate, and yes there was no ABUSE of children in the garden. There also were no floods, hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, famine or anything like this then. Man never had to work hard, sweat just to survive. All of this was brought into our world because Man choose to go against God plan. Therefore blaming God is not the correct answer. Blaming Man is.
Men are sinful, Gods word tells us we are born with a sinful nature. There will always be bad things happening to children as well as adults. Blaming God is not the answer……..seeking help from God for your sorrows is…….

Just my thoughts


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