Newest Members
chairdesklamp, Bill Ohio USA, jez, Long Way Home, Bcbornleo
13595 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Andrew (67), andrew-almost52 (67), andrew51 (67), James35 (51), jmr2191 (27), Ower (53), steve-o (61), TOM2 (36)
Who's Online
3 registered (traveler, 2Bnormal51, Ceremony), 40 Guests and 2 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,595 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,704 Topics
493,779 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Topic Options
#327992 - 04/11/10 06:29 AM Opinion welcome - no triggers
alone Offline

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 62
Hi everyone!
I don't post much. I always have a feeling that I can't help anybody. A lot of conflicts going on in my mind. I just turned 61 yesterday (Thanks to Male Survivor for the nice birthday wish, much appreciated)

My point for this is that I have a new T after being with the same one since 1990 but he is retiring for health reasons. My new T and I hit it off great. We are the same age so there was a common ground from the start. One thing he told me during a session last week was about guilt. Guilt has been a part of my life for 49 years. I would call it unwarranted guilt but it is there. He told me that there are only two types of guilt. One type is that if you set out to purposely harm someone and succeed then that is valid grounds for guilt. The second was to accidently without you realizing it and without premeditation, cause someone harm in some way by something you did or said that is also a reason for guilt feelings. To the best of my knowledge have not done either. I am not a saint but I always wanted to treat people nicely. Even if I donít always get it in return. I am passive and a people pleaser. I donít like confrontation and avoid it. He then told me (while this may take some time) to throw out all of the other perceived guilt that I feel from the point of my SA and life after that. I told him I will have to work on that. Frankly, after 49 years it is rather well ingrained. He also said that I need to forgive myself. I donít know how to do that and it will be addressed at the next session. I consider myself educated in some areas that enabled to get through my working years but I am lacking in many other areas that seem to have been taken from me a long time ago. I donít know how others are self starters, self motivators, goal orientated, having drive and ambition. All of those attributes have always escaped me. I am now retired. A bit earlier than I had expected but mostly because of some health reasons and the other part was that my position was elimated which can have a "slight effect" smirk on my situation .

So I think my whole point of this was to ask those who might like to respond what you think of my Tís take on the only two reasons for guilt. He said guilt is a wasted emotion for the most part and does unneeded psychological damage.

This very well could be common knowledge. I was just never told this.

If you got this far, thanks for reading.


Edited by alone (04/11/10 06:31 AM)

#327995 - 04/11/10 10:03 AM Re: Opinion welcome - no triggers [Re: alone]
irishguy Offline

Registered: 03/01/04
Posts: 231
Loc: Dublin, Ireland
In my opinion your T may or may not be right, what he told is his way of looking at it which will be different to how you look at it. We as humans are lucky enough to harbour these great feelins and emotions such as guilt and depending on the type of person who you are different emotions are stronger than others. some people may feel guilt more than others, or as a result of the smallest action. and others may feel no guilt at all regardless of what they may have done. Did our abusers feel guilt at what they done to us? maybe some did, but im sure some did'nt.

Maybe none of this makes sense, I feel like im just babbleing on, but its just my thoughts on it.


Only Irish coffee provides in a single glass all four essential food groups: alcohol, caffeine, sugar, and fat.

#327999 - 04/11/10 12:27 PM Re: Opinion welcome - no triggers [Re: alone]
kidneythis Offline

Registered: 11/09/09
Posts: 1558
I got several things from your post. I think your therapist is not the right match for you. He may be easy to get along with and might make a good friend but he doesn't have the compassion or empathy, as he stated himself, to deal with your situation. It sounds to me like he's one of these "get over it" kind of guys. I've dealt with them they never say it outright but they manipulate and dismiss things to point one in that direction. This leaves much unprocessed for his benefit not yours. 2 reasons to feel guilty!? give me a fucking break!
Guilt for harming someon intentionally! Usually normal people cause someoen else harm onpurpose to enact justice. WHy would anyone feel guilty about that? To have accidentally harmed someoen may make one feel guilty but it wouldn't take over and drag on for years unless there was some hidden intent or other reason attached to it. Both reasons he gives only work if there is an underlying issue that isn't addressed otherwise normal function wouldn't cause the problem you describe. 49 years of feeling guilty. He doesn't want to know why, he wants you to "get over it".
To call guilt a wasted emotion is scary to me. To dismiss one of the most important self control emotions like that doesn't bode well to me. I'm scared of him and I don't even know him.

I have an idea about your guilt feelings. Maybe it comes from the fact that you are a people pleaser and passive. your unconscious mind is telling you that you are letting yourself down and you feel guilty for not standing up for yourself in situations that you should have.
There is also somehow guilt associated with having been abused. I think this is also from our subconscious minds thinking we could have stopped it or fought harder etc... I don't regard this sort of guilt as valid it is part of the psychological damage and part of our need to feel like we had some control over the situation. feeling guilty for not doing something we couldn't have done makes it seem we had control in a backwards sort of way.

Good luck and happy birthday.

Edited by kidneythis (04/11/10 12:33 PM)
As Mark Twain once quipped, history may not repeat itself, but it does rhyme.

#328315 - 04/14/10 06:24 AM Re: Opinion welcome - no triggers [Re: kidneythis]
alone Offline

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 62
thanks very much for the response. kidneythis, I have felt for years that truth and understanding has illuded me. I have been told so many things in the past that I shut down and don't deal with it. I escape through driving, TV, movies. I don't do drugs and alcohol. That doesn't make me a better person. I just didn't want to do it. I question the statement he made about guilt. I will see him next week and I will ask him more in depth. Other than a paid T, I have no friend to talk to. Here online is a good thing but it all (as it has to be) anonymous.
That is why I am,

#329127 - 04/21/10 05:53 AM Re: Opinion welcome - no triggers [Re: alone]
alone Offline

Registered: 03/05/09
Posts: 62

You are absolutely correct. I saw my T today. He doesn't seem to be a good match for me. For 20 years I addressed my other T as Doctor. This guy told me just to call him by his first name. I thought that odd. After seeing him today (at $94.00 a visit I might add), I have a feeling of not going back. Not because of the money. My deductible hasn't been met yet. My insurance pays 100% for anything to do with psychological or psychiatric care. Today was different. He gave me a book during the last visit about forgiveness. I am not a great reader so I just read the part about self forgiveness. I have had a problem with forgiving myself for some things I have done in the past. Not prison time kind of things but just doing wrong things that I wish I hadn't. I told him I just read that part and it helped. The rest of the visit had little to do with why I came there but I left more confused than I was before I saw him about some things concerning rather controversial topics like religions, the Bible, the fact that experimentation between young boys is not normal at 12 years old (he said that's for when you are 5 or 6) I didn't even know one damn thing about sex until I was 12 because of that #$%^ing molester. Only then did I get curious. He said that sexual experimentation at the age of 12 between boys of that age group could open the door to being gay. It didn't do that to me. Then he told me that only males who are gay were definitely born gay. Scientifically proven he said. Females...not so...they make a choice. WHAT!?!?!

I left there feeling like I was just told a load of bullshit. It seemed all convoluted. I can't sort it all out. I could really go on about his take on religion and God but it's late and I'll have to save that for later.

61 years old, part of me frozen at 12 years old, and I just can't figure a lot of stuff out. I am able to talk to my son (he's 25). He has things much more together than I do even at his young age. He helps me quite a bit.

But I still don't know where the truth is. And I do realize that I am not the first one to say that.

I am quoting him "Religion, it's all dogma." What does that mean?

I have always felt like I have never been in the loop with anything. I can't even see the loop!!


#329131 - 04/21/10 09:29 AM Re: Opinion welcome - no triggers [Re: alone]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2713
Loc: durham, north england
At the Mike lew conference I went to last year, one thing I remember Mike saying was that a lot of therapists have specific emotions they like dealing with and others they don't. So when your told "you need to work on your, ---- " that really translates as "i'm comfortable working on your ----"

Maybe this fellow's rigid ideas about guilt are just because he's not comfortable with dealing with it and prefers to compartmentalize it off.

Equally though, perhaps he's trying to explain to you the logical reason why you shouldn't be feeling guilty yourself. Either way, you might considder having a general sort of "where the heck are you coming from" and "what the heck are you doing" type of chat.

I did this with one of my T's where things weren't really progressing, and it helped a lot.

In the end the T is there to help you.

If a waiter in a restaurant bought you tea when you'd asked for coffee you wouldn't just sit there and take it, sinse the waiter is ultimately there to bring you your order.

This isn't to say you'd yell your head off and ghet unpleasant (as I've seen some people do), but you'd be qite within your rights to say "Excuse me, ---- didn't I order coffee? could you please bring some?"

Ditto with your T, even if they can't always be detailed about the process they're working through with you, a bit of clarrity and discussion about what is going on is a good idea, ---- in fact a friend of mine who does person centered couseling says she much prefers it that way.
I'm not sure about quitting entirely, ---- not when you feel comfortable talking to this chap.

Also it strikes me when you've been with the same person for 20 years, there's going to be a big change to anyone. I felt the same thing myself when i changed T's, ---- and I'd only been with her for a year.

I really hope you can fix this and start getting what you need to feel better about yourself and take control of your life.



Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.