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#374469 - 11/06/11 08:56 PM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: Bearaffe]
Vadrian Offline

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 115
Loc: Pacific
Bearaffe, I think you have problems with projection and transference; the OP never said anything about questioning his sexuality, what he did was examine how his incest later caused him to be attracted to older men. That is his personal truth and whether it is yours or not, you could at least respect him enough to leave him to it, and not post these hostile and insensitive messages. I think you're the one who has to DEAL with things involving other people and letting things go instead of defending yourself. This is not a website devoted to fetishes and pretending they are abstract and don't come from early life, nor a place to harass victims. Survivors come first here. Many of us know for a fact that yes, our fetishes did come from being abused.

And yes, being molested is pathological, and does have serious deleterious, widespread and lasting effects on our lives. I don't see your story here about how you were abused and what it did to your life. Why not share and receive the empathy and good will this site has to offer?

Edited by Vadrian (11/07/11 01:08 AM)

#374523 - 11/07/11 06:19 AM Re: My thought on the matter of.... [Re: Bearaffe]
GeorgeMartin Offline

Registered: 12/30/07
Posts: 207
Loc: USA
Stop trying to "Pathologize" the sexual abuse by a grown adult (father) to his young son (a child)? Am I reading this correctly?

What is NOT pathological and deviant about it?

The only reason "straight" heterosexual boys who are molested by their fathers usually grow up to beat and kill other gay men, rather than seeking them out for sexual encounters."

Well, there are several issues I have with this assumption. First of all, just because a straight/heterosexual man sexually abuses a another male younger or older does not make that perpetrator a homosexual. Nor does it make the victim of such assualt a gay person.

It could be worse?

Really? How so could it be worse? Perhaps he should have killed the victim he was molesting, thereafter?

I am not here to argue with you or anyone else, but I find your position Bearaffe, to be a bit "off" and while you have your opinions, I have my own 35+ years of dealing with the sexual abuse.

Yeah, stop pathologizing the abuse? Right.

It's easy for you to say that, sitting there with your fantasies, isn't it?

If I could, I would bring you into my childhood abuse day in day out, year after year, by those 'parents' and see if you can un-pathologize it Bearaffe.

Let's see you try to minimize what I went through as a young child, or what any other incest victim has gone through.

You have no idea, or you wouldn't be saying what you have.

Evil begins in the mind.

#374631 - 11/08/11 01:30 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
cant_remember Offline

Registered: 02/26/05
Posts: 1070
This thread fits me exactly. Thank you for starting it.

For me, it's a granddad incest fetish. Conservative looking white-haired men.

As my screen name indicates, I cannot remember any specific abuse, and I've come to terms with not knowing.

Either it happened with an older neighbor when I was between 5 and 7 years old and my brain has blocked it out to protect me, OR -- it never happened at all and I was born this way, OR -- it happened in a past life (even though my Catholic faith doesn't teach re-incarnation, I do keep this option open as an equally realistic option).

The point is, it doesn't matter whether it happened or not. I'm 35 and single, seemingly straight to those I meet, but all I want sexually is to feel like a boy with a mature man with white pubic hair and a big uncut manhood.

I have an older friend (former sex partner) who once told me that my desire for white pubic hair was a "fetish." I was offended at first because I'm really repulsed by most fetishes -- boots and leather and things like that. But I suppose he's right.

But you know what? I cannot change the past. What happened, happened, if it happened.

I have come to accept this part of me and try every day to merge my primary self-state with the part of me that craves sexual attention from old men.

I am no longer crippled by the nasty cocktail of shame, guilt and fear that gripped me in young adulthood when thinking about this part of my life. Anything in my childhood that caused me to be this way is not my fault.

While I am still in the closet as a man who has sex with men, and even deeper in the closet as a young man who fantasizes as a boy being molested by his grandfather -- I'm OK with it.

I don't try to pathologize my desires because I know that whatever happened to me is not my fault, and if nothing happened to me, then that's not my fault, either.

This Penn State abuse scandal story is throwing me for a loop... because in an online fantasy roleplay, I would get off playing the role of the boy being raped by his coach in the shower... but seeing that scene play out in real-life? Well, that's a totally different story.

I felt the collision of my self-states -- my primary self that lives in reality vs. my fantasy sexualized self. My initial reaction was un-emotional curiosity, then I realized the details of that story would turn me on if they were in an online chat room, but since I was reading them in a news story, all I could think about is how that coach has ruined another life -- another boy destined to grow into men like us: lost, wounded and confused.

I've had similar reactions reading priest-abuse news stories. First I think, "oh, that's kinda hot," then I read more and my stomach turns. I fetishize monsters.

The videos of the Penn State coach they are playing on the news show him playing basketball with some of his "at-risk youth," and the coach's body is incredibly athletic and muscular. And when you see his face, he has a mouthful of shark's teeth. An unbelievable monster. Yet with his neatly cut white hair, I think to myself, "oh, he's my type."

I look forward to the day when I can "come out" as a survivor of sex abuse (if that's indeed what I am), but until then I keep living the life that I've been given. It's not perfect, but it's the only one I got.

I'll be just fine and dandy
Lord, it's like a hard candy Christmas
I'm barely getting through tomorrow
But I won't let sorrow get me way down.

#374657 - 11/08/11 06:26 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: cant_remember]
1lifenow Offline

Registered: 03/07/11
Posts: 437
Loc: west coast
This is a tough post because there are some conflicting feelings partly due to separating idealized fantasy from actual “dad/son” sexual exploitation and abuse.

Part of it is that for a survivor, the ritualization of sexual encounters is common. This is one aspect of sexual addiction that separates it from normal sexuality. There is an obsessing about whatever the scenario is and it is just as important of not more so than the actual encounter itself. But the fantasizer usually never has the scene play out exactly as it is in his head and therefore there is no resolution and the cycle repeats. But this is not really what bearaffe realized when he “stirred the Pot”.

I contend that despite his opening qualifier , he knew his statement was going to be controversial. He talks of seeking it out “well into his teens”, we don’t know if it was after the age of consent but it sounds that way, and therefore if HE sought out sex , I am not sure that in the legal sense it could be considered abuse – incest with his cousins, yes (part of the normal relationship paradigm of European royalty for many years leading to hemophilia and really big ears) but abuse , unlikely by legal definition. So I am not sure that he is a survivor but I don’t think that really is the issue.

What’s troubling is the whole tone of his assertion. He talks about the abuse as being a “shame” that PS was molested. That is like saying that the effects on the survivor is at best unfortunate, I think we can all agree given the fallout in ALL our lives that this is a monumental underestimation of its devastating effects. It’s a shame if the movie sells out and you have to go another night. Being subjected to csa is not mearly a “shame”.

“No one ever pathologizes straight people when they are in intergenerational relationships.” Wrong! They do if the young woman/man is not of age, ( I am doing my best sista shake my head thang here, even tho I am a white Canadian older albeit gay male). And have you never heard of mary k Letourneau? . yes teenage boys love MILFS but its in their heads. Like this poor guy, if it actually happens , not good.

Yup older men are hot, no question for some. But this is not a “non-traditional” relationship where again bearaffe completely misses the point. It is illegal exploitation of a young person who does not have the maturity to process being sexualized by an adult with the great power discrepancy and not a same age peer. So his point of yes young people can fantasize about older sexually mature and attractive men or women is lost. There is no crime in this, but society rightfully says it is not in the immature child or young teens interest to be a part of this until they are of an age when their psyche can appreciate and deal with it.

Yes its not easy to sometimes understand the genesis of our fetishes , it is tough enough to grasp our sexuality sometimes when the abuse robs us of our own ability to know ourselves. I always marveled at the guys who had it figured out from the start. But it is important to distinguish between fantasy and reality , what is a acceptable behind the closed doors of mutually consenting ADULTS and what is just f’d up exploitation of the young by an adult no matter what the young person has in his/her head. I can understand why georgemartin was so upset by bearaffe’s minimizing language and yet some of us say bearaffe has a point in there somewhere. Both are true, respect is something that has to be earned. I know we don’t want to be so politically correct that we cant express ourselves, I guess making sure we don’t discount or make light of others experiences, especially if we have never had the experience ourselves is really critical. I know it’s something I realize I have to work on everyday.

I just hope that by the football story coming out, more and more victims of exploitation will find the strength to realize they DO have a choice and that they too can come forward. No matter how painful or impossible it seems or will be in the short term, there is no question it is a better option in the long run. It’s about the SECRETS, the shame, the guilt, the damage done. It CAN start to heal. IT helps if we all "come out" about as much as we are able.

The need for love lies at the very foundation of human existence. Dalai Lama

WoR Barrie 2011

#374708 - 11/09/11 02:39 AM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: cant_remember]
Vadrian Offline

Registered: 09/11/11
Posts: 115
Loc: Pacific

Edited by Vadrian (11/10/11 02:40 AM)

#380613 - 12/24/11 09:58 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: PSGuy760]
winstonvan Offline

Registered: 12/24/11
Posts: 1
Loc: New York
My mom died when i was 5 years old. About two years after that, my dad's male lover, David, moved into our home. He was very friendly, and we all got along well until I was 11--at that point David began coming in my room at night. He told me to by very quiet as he showed me his pornography. He would masturbate in front of me, and tell me to masturbate too.

I told my Dad about this, but he did nothing to stop David, and David continued coming to my bed a couple nights a week. He gradually became more aggressive until I was a teenager, when he started to rape me. This went on for years until i moved out of the house.

I've tried to talk to my dad about this recently, to understand why he would not help me, but he won't' discuss it. I've talked to David recently too (he's no longer living with my dad). David said that he was only with my dad to get to me, and my dad knew this. Apparently my dad was willing to sacrifice me to stay in the relationship with David.

This is what I had suspected for years, and I've been terribly bitter about it. I'm so angry at both of them, so hurt.

Despite this, after I confronted David, and we had discussed everything, we had sex, and we've continued having sex for about a month. It isn't the same as before--obviously it's consensual, and I'm an adult, but i feel so guilty and ashamed. i want to stop, but I'm very attracted to him now. as far as I know, he is not abusing other kids now, but I feel that i should report him instead of having sex with him

#380724 - 12/26/11 05:23 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Sobernow]
westchesterguy Offline

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
fascinating discussion guys.


#380735 - 12/26/11 08:21 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: winstonvan]
Chase Eric Offline

Registered: 10/25/10
Posts: 2962
This conversation really hits home with me on a few levels. I was never put into an incestuous relationship with anyone in my family. But my dad had an opportunity to protect me from a known serial molester who lived next door to us. When it was decided that he would not be turned over to law enforcement, I was fully allowed to be his little buddy again. It seems they never knew I was a victim, even though I admitted to my mom I was (she has since claimed she remembers no such conversation, but I absolutely know we discussed it when I was 13). In essence, I felt like I was thrown to the wolf to keep him away from the little neighborhood girls.

Ever since I have tended to seek out older men and my sexual patterns remain very much as I learned them at the whims of my molester. I think part of that is a fusion of replaying my own abuse along with a sexualized interpretation of being in bigger, stronger, and older arms - a protection that I (non-sexually) should have had. But who knows how the sexual subconscious mind works? ...

The circuitous route that our mind makes is as hopelessly tangled as a knotted ball of fishing line - I could spend my whole life trying to unravel it, and I would remain baffled to my grave.

Winston actually mentioned a rekindled relationship with the man who sexually abused him when he was 11. That's all part of a pattern I am convinced we are almost doomed - sentenced - to repeat over and over again. I read about those who would gladly hurt, maim or even kill their molester and I wonder why I am not that far in my OWN recovery. I may not be sleeping with the man who abused me when I was 12, but I still sometimes crave to return to the abuse, perhaps to master it, perhaps in part driven by arousing memories that contradict the crime - that belie my own credibility with myself. So I am not surprised to hear Winston's account. When a child's sexual maturity is messed with, the wiring is almost hopelessly screwed up.

We are wired in part according to the circuits our molesters charged. That we may still find arousal in those old patterns - perhaps even with the original instigators - may seem incompatible with the crime. Yet that itself serves to reveal just how deep that crime has affected us - almost like an eternal sexual Stockholm syndrome.


#380741 - 12/26/11 08:58 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: Chase Eric]
westchesterguy Offline

Registered: 11/14/09
Posts: 421
Loc: Westchester County NY
Originally Posted By: Chase Eric
...a rekindled relationship with the man who sexually abused him when he was 11. That's all part of a pattern I am convinced we are almost doomed - sentenced - to repeat over and over again. I read about those who would gladly hurt, maim or even kill their molester.....

chase eric, i wish my desires were aligned by what winston wrote, for perhaps it would mean i had less anger at the time of rape. i "fantasize" that somehow a rape could have been part of something greater and smarter and emotional other than mind control. instead, i'm in the "kill" or revenge camp as adult and secretly applaud those guys brave enough to carry out revenge. meanwhile, there are 20 and 30 somethings online today who want a "dad," which repulses me simply because i'm the age of their fetish, and i'm beginning to think that desire is just their sentence from the pedophile.

but my sentence (at 47 and forever single) is to just become what society coins as "dirty old man" who can only find pleasure in online porn and no human contact.

so maybe my fetish is just the opposite of this thread. rather than find a dadish/incest figure for sex and comfort and protection, i seek an "equal partner" who will battle life with me as we support each other behind that white picket fence.... in the end, neither fetish is based in reality, in my view, but it is what keeps us going.

Edited by westchesterguy (12/26/11 09:02 PM)

#380852 - 12/27/11 10:36 PM Re: DAD/SON Incest Sexual Fetish [Re: westchesterguy]
Avery46 Offline

Registered: 09/23/10
Posts: 1243
Loc: USA
Originally Posted By: westchesterguy
....i seek an "equal partner" who will battle life with me as we support each other behind that white picket fence.... in the end, neither fetish is based in reality, in my view, but it is what keeps us going.

I so agree with you. Brilliantly said - Bravo.

aka DJsport

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