Newest Members
twinker, LaneFiasco95, Kristabar, tom93, ninjei
13513 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
almostdonew/life (42), barelysurviving (48), bigbob20 (72), billyp (68), Larry Mullen (70), Shawv (73), TheTwoOfUs (46)
Who's Online
6 registered (Golden_Phoenix, AL-S, Greg56, usmc97, payne, 1 invisible), 61 Guests and 3 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,513 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,191 Topics
490,076 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Twitter
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2
Topic Options
#300348 - 08/24/09 04:28 AM Re: Not for the religiously squeamish [Re: Freedom49]
Neighbor Offline


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 8
Loc: California
The way I understand it is that it's wrong to be angry without cause. When we've been betrayed in the way we have, how on earth can anger be without cause? It certainly has a cause. There are some who say they forgive those who have done great evil against them, but I question this. For example when someone murders their partner and is a very evil person, and they think they are commanded to forgive that person. It never made sense to me.

I'd rather think that turning the wrong over to God, for Him to deal with so I can let go of it is a better course than to think otherwise.

_________________________
Re examine all you've been told.
Reject that which offends your soul.
http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

Top
#300456 - 08/25/09 04:36 AM Re: [Re: Neighbor]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2724
Loc: Washington State
.




Edited by Freedom49 (05/21/10 10:19 PM)

Top
#300487 - 08/25/09 02:27 PM Re: Not for the religiously squeamish [Re: Freedom49]
Neighbor Offline


Registered: 08/24/09
Posts: 8
Loc: California
I love your signature, "Friends are God's way of apologizing to us for our families.":-) I'm just now starting to have friends... and mid 50's is sort of late, but better late than never. But the only friend I've had since high school just retired and he has properties all over the US, so we won't be able to get together for fishing trips very much now.

It's odd though. I'm super biblical in my views of the world and he's anything but that - but is not a complete athiest - he says the mountains are his 'church' and way to get close to God. We both enjoy the mental gymnastics of our discussions about world views, politics, economy, and how various religions influence peoples actions, let alone seeking advice for sundry problems life brings our way. We maintain a curious balance but really enjoy spending time together.

I've never had such a good friend in my entire life and already miss our daily conversations.

Hopefully I will be able to find another friend.

_________________________
Re examine all you've been told.
Reject that which offends your soul.
http://www.onediscipletoanother.org

Top
#300488 - 08/25/09 02:43 PM Re: Not for the religiously squeamish [Re: Freedom49]
expom Offline


Registered: 01/07/09
Posts: 126
Loc: Australia
Have you got in mind what it means to forgive?

The way that I understand it, a bit like justscott said, is that we no longer pursue someone for the debt that they owe us. For me, I talk about the sexual abuse that I suffered as a child being a bit like having part of my childhood amputated. Nothing will bring that back; I can't have it re-implanted. It is gone; therefore I greave.

The perpetrator who abused and raped me is dead; I received written communication from the police less than an hour ago (and am not happy) confirming what I thought for several years. For me to forgive him is a moot point. There is no way that I can pursue him into the next life to get justice in this life. I continue to have faith that the Almighty will deal with him appropriately in the next life. The fact that I'd prefer it if God dealt with him harshly, implies to me that I haven't reached a state where I would not pursue the perp if he were still alive. But I'm not sure if this is forgiveness or not and the reason is different.

For me there are a couple of important things when we start to talk about the forgiveness of sexual predators. I saw Andrew Vachs on Oprah Winfrey a while back and he asked perhaps the most important question when it comes to the forgiveness of those men and women who prey on children for sexual gratification. "Who is it that pays the price for society's easy forgiveness of these perpetrators? Is it not paid for by the future children that are violated by these people?"

Forgiveness, to me has little to do with letting them off the hook and getting them to pay the price that society should still demand that they pay.

The sexual crimes against children can be described as crimes against society. It is society that failed to give us the protection that we needed as children. Therefore, for me, it is society that needs to be forgiven as much as the perpetrator.

I know that I will not be able to see the perpetrator express any form of remorse - maybe that will go for society too. My family certainly haven't shown much - my forgiveness for their inaction and lack of support seems wasted.

The bottom line as far as I am concerned is that I have half lived for half of my life. I need to heal, I want to heal. I want to move on and to get to the point where I can enjoy what is ahead of me. The only way that I feel that I can do that is to do everything within my capability to ensure that there are as few distractions as possible that try and get me to turn round and keep concentrating on what might have been. I can't keep looking back wishing things were different. I have a bright future because that is what i choose for myself - one that is bereft of the power that the perp had over me.

I feel that I am really getting to grips with this important aspect of forgiveness - that it is me that I really need to forgive: for not finding a way out; for not telling someone; for not reporting while he was still alive; for not telling my wife of 26 years about the csa; for so many things.

And I agree with the other posts that it is in this forgiveness that I have given to myself that I am freed up to face my future with a smile on my face; I am able to move forward with an ever decreasing csa burden.

A lightness returns to my spirit as I realise that I was dis-spirited as a child but didn't have my spirit destroyed. I choose to allow it to heal. I choose to dare to dream good dreams. I choose to turn those dreams into memories.

I reckon I still have some catching up to do. So excuse me, I'm off to have another bowl of ice cream before I head to bed.

ADen

_________________________
I endured all my yesterdays. I prevail in all of my todays. I exercise my right to be able to enjoy my tomorrows. I choose not to do it alone.

Top
#300502 - 08/25/09 06:22 PM Re: [Re: expom]
Freedom49 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2724
Loc: Washington State
.




Edited by Freedom49 (05/21/10 10:06 PM)

Top
#300545 - 08/26/09 01:51 AM Re: Not for the religiously squeamish [Re: Freedom49]
Anarion Cti Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 03/23/09
Posts: 157
Loc: Eastern US
Dear ADen,
I second Roger's endorsement of your post, and I would like to add that I believe you are completely innocent for not finding a way out and for not being able to tell anyone for a very long time. So often, children just don't have the vocabulary and the mental constructs available to them to even express what happened to them, especially something as horrifying and devastating as rape. That was true of both of us, and of tens of thousands of other male survivors out there when we were young.
Nor are you guilty for wanting God to deal harshly with the rapist; rest assured that God WILL indeed deal harshly, and justly, with that criminal. Please don't be too hard on yourself! It is entirely natural, and godly, to long for justice. God (and you) already gave the abuser plenty enough of grace by allowing him to live some time after the abuse took place, and if the perpetrator did not use that time to take the opportunity repent and to make restitution to you, then his current damnation is all the more just for that.
And as for your adult years, you have become a very brave and kind man who is very much eager to help others. Therefore, now it is time for us, many of whom you have blessed and encourage, to be there for you in the hour of your sorrow as the letter from the police brings back old pain. Your biological family indeed was not there for you, but we, your brothers in Christ, your spiritual family, are here for you now.
I love you ADen, and I pray for you every day! You are infinitely valuable, and you mean so much to us, who have benefited from your encouragement, love and kindness! I thank God for you, and in doing that I'd like to dedicate this song to you: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1J0O8wTzvIc

May you be blessed with all the indescribable riches of God's grace,
Anarion

_________________________
"Thou, O Lord, are the shield about me;
You're my helper,
You're the one who lifts up my head."
"Whom have I in heaven or earth but You?"

Top
Page 2 of 2 < 1 2

Moderator:  ModTeam 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.