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#286216 - 05/04/09 03:28 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
AndyS87 Offline

Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 306
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
I know in my experience until I got EMDR I was having fantasies about sexual things with my cousin, the perp, while I masturbated or I would have fantasies, especially when I was a younger teenager, about kids who were 5 or 6 years younger than me. As I got older those fantasies really really bothered me, especially because the rest of the time I was thinking about girls I liked and the other stuff didn't fit in.

After EMDR for a lot of that the fantasies just stopped. It was also a realization that by revisiting those fantasies or watching gay porn and getting off to it that I was feeling this torn up wrecked feeling afterwards. It got to the point where I realized that I was ripping my soul apart by doing that stuff. Then after reading some words on Joe Kort's website I realized that it was all related to trying to make sense of what happened, and even if I thought of it as being sexual it was an expression over the anxiety those experiences caused me. I would have NEVER wanted to actually perform any of the fantasies that went on in my head about younger kids, I knew how wrong those were.

I also think if I hadn't gotten to the point where things felt so split between who I was and what was happening in my head I could have continued that pattern for a much longer period of time. My abuse ended when I was 9. I started masturbating when I was 11, and for the next ten years EXACTLY everything was so crazy like that. Now at 22 and about a year through this whole journey into the what's and why's and how's and an AWFUL lot of deep introspection I feel that I've arrived at a scary place in life, but scary in a good way.

Scary when you start a new school and you're nervous about meeting new people, or nervous about all those rumors about upperclassmen stuffing you in lockers or giving you swirlies. For the past 11 years I had been living this life that was confused, broken, and masked. I got so used to wearing a mask and covering up who I was that it just became involuntary. I didn't want people to know how I felt, I didn't want to show any emotions. So I put on the goofy joking personality and ran with it. It's become a part of me to the core now, but it's existing there because I like that part of me, it's not a mask anymore.

Sexually though, I'm at a new place. It's a fresh kind of discovery like when I was 11 or 12. I'm not being controlled by fantasies that happened because of what my cousin did to me. All the homosexual and homoerotic thoughts and fantasies that felt so opposite of the rest of me fade and dissipate more and more every time I go to EMDR. I make my own choices now, and I can decide what I feel comfortable with and what I like, instead of trying to turn myself into my cousin and reliving my relationship with him along with the abuse in my mind. I feel ready finally to meet a girl or start dating, something that I was convinced I was too broken or damaged to do in the past.

Allowing myself to be that emotionally open is scary too, because in the past I've been very guarded about everything in my life, with the exception of two or three of my best friends who are basically brothers to me. Scared that if I get to the point in a relationship where I do reveal this part of me and my past, that I'll be left because they won't understand or be able to handle the emotional baggage. I'd say I feel like I have my life back, but this all started when I was 6. The sixteen years since that have been all I knew in my life, and for most of that time I hid my feelings and repressed my emotions and just put my head down and pushed myself forward. I'm not used to having things so new and opened up. I'm still digging through and finding things that I've kept buried for so long, and each time I free those things, I feel happy, but also scared. I don't know what all this is going to make me.

Oddly though I feel like it's simplifying me as a person. All these things I had implemented to protect myself, all these barriers, they're falling. I couldn't even tell you what they were, there were so many of them. Good to have em gone, but it's weird at the same time.

#286220 - 05/04/09 04:21 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
lfp Offline

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 122
Hi, I think this post is very useful...

This has been a storm in my mind for soo long. I don't have any fantasies with my agressor but I do have these homoerotic fantasies... At the begginning I was easily aroused by thoughts of same sex people masturbating.

Now I can either be aroused by both straight and homoerotic thoughts, although I consider myself straight.

Frequently I get angry because this is just not "normal"... I shouldn't be feeling all this, and also, this subject is just so.... uncomfortable to share, specially with your close male friends!

Even though I like women, I don't seem to have that strong feeling and sexual desire for women that average men have.

Also, after abuse, I developed some fetishes that still bother me. Is there any way to get rid of all this?

Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

#286222 - 05/04/09 04:26 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: AndyS87]
lfp Offline

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 122
Hi, I can see that EMDR helped you.

I also started my EMDR treatment and it was just a mess, I started having hallucinations, I just got worse. Nothing changed!!!

I stopped seeing my T... I don't know what to do now.

Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

#286255 - 05/04/09 12:55 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: lfp]
AndyS87 Offline

Registered: 12/12/08
Posts: 306
Loc: sorry, but I don't say on the ...
That's a tough one. This hasn't been as difficult for me as I think it's been for some people because I wasn't violently abused, my cousin who was my perp was coercive and used to kind of wear me down into saying "ok" and letting him do whatever. On a couple of occasions when I did say no and really meant it he left me alone. That said, the EMDR has only tackled cognitions or thought processes, I haven't taken on the actual memories of the event yet. I'm going to try that on wednesday and we'll see where that goes.

It's funny though, even after I made that post last night these thoughts and fantasies that normally come into my mind and turn me OFF started up, and they did the opposite, they turned me on. I have a form of obsessive compulsive disorder where I fear irrationaly that I am suddenly turning gay, and to calm it down when those thoughts come around I mock them or laugh at them to diminish them. But last night it was like since I wasn't scared by them, I thought "well ok maybe I really do like this" and then I got off to them. It was a fantasy about this kid I used to know whose diapers I used to change, he's 13 or 14 now I think. This is stuff that my rational mind does NOT welcome, but for some reason it hit last night right before I went to bed and It's made me very uncomfortable. I wonder if it was me trying to take control of the anxiety this has been causing in my life lately. The other reality is that since things are so wide open, it seems inevitable that at times I'll go back to the old thoughts and fantasies since they are what I know the best.

LFP, I dunno what to tell ya. I think therapy is a great tool to use to cope with this stuff, but if you're not ready you're not ready. If you were getting that bad, you and your T should have established an EMDR "safe" place inside your head where you could go to get away from some of those disturbing situations. Good luck.

#287791 - 05/17/09 01:05 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: AndyS87]
lfp Offline

Registered: 11/02/08
Posts: 122

Now I have something different, I think it's directly related to low self steem.

I have been having fantasies with a male friend, I've always seen him as the "prototype boy" my dad would've liked to have and not me... He is the typical masculine figure, sportive and sometimes flirt, has a successful social life and is accepted in many groups.

I am rather different, I don't have a successful social life, I don't enjoy people closeness, I mean, when I perceive some extra closeness to my privacy I just want to throw up. I don't like a lot of things most people my age do. I know I am unique and bla bla and so on, but there is just nothing out there I feel I belong to, have nobody to share with.

What is it like to be with friends (boys and girls, around age 20) having lunch and there is a soccer game and all my male friends are watching and I just don't care about it, just like all the girls there. I'd rather see some Tchaikovsky Nutcracker Ballet than ANY sport game, and in Colombia!! You have 0 cultural diversity here!

I never played sports, While my friends were playing some sport during breaktimes at school, I was eating fast in order to receive my Ancient-Latin/Greek lessons a priest was giving me. They were preparing me to be a priest, I assisted to some preparation courses in which I had to dress like a priest, and prepare mass and etc. My life was sooo different, and so painful also not only because my abuse.

Now I'm an almost graduating student of engineering (not priest)and I feel that those fantasies of my mind are really here to stay, I was having EMDR treatment and it was the most horrible thing as I said before. I'm also tired of people out there who believe my things are very simple to deal with, If I say: I think this, then they say: "Well, don't think about it", if I say "I have low self steem" they say "Look, you have good grades" and so on...

I find it hard to handle all this because I don't know what is going to be permanent and what I can change, and if I can change it, I don't know how. I've seen 4 Ts so far, and they just try to put sand on int instead of clearing everything up. I just stopped seeing my last T because she blamed me for all this.

What to do...

Consider the postage stamp: its usefulness consists in the ability to stick to one thing till it gets there. ~Josh Billings.
The Round Table, Mondays 7:30pm CST.

#288721 - 05/25/09 12:06 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: pufferfish]
petercorbett Offline

Registered: 07/27/08
Posts: 2509
Hi my brothers in pain.

Well for me fantasizing while masturbating, is a compulsive thing of the past. (I hope). I was most of the time fantasizing being with my primary agressor (Ralph). I have been doing this for 60 yrs.

But I went to a WOR (weekend of recovery), last week. It was an emotionally exhausting weekend. I/we were into the very depths of our soul. We were helping each other to find that lost boy.

Well I did find little Peter, I asked for Divine intervention. If I could find little Peter. It was intense for me, and if my plea for help was answered, I would change my masturbation habits and thinking of all those pleasures that I had received from my sexual agressor (Ralph).

So I made a pact with God, that I would give up my compulsive habit in return.

I finally figured it out at that WOR in Georgia.
How could I possibly hope to come to terms with little Peter and those years of sexual pleasure, while I was constantly thinking that my sexual agressor loved me.

So I'm starting to get my head screwed on right, get rid of old compulsive habits.

Stop fantasizing about those (WRONG) pleasures given to me.

I'll have to get my high in talking and listning to little Pete and our journey from the depths of hell and soul, into the sunlight.

That's my hope.

Heal well my brothers/friends.

Pete (Irishmoose)

Working Boys' Home 10-14 yrs old, grades 5-8. 1949-1953
A very humble alumni of the WOR Dahlonega, GA.
May 15-17 2009, Alta, Sep. 2009. Sequoia, 2010.
Hope Springs, 2010.

#289096 - 05/27/09 07:01 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
Casmir213 Offline

Registered: 05/14/09
Posts: 851
Loc: Northeast, USA
To Charlie and everyone involved in the discussion,

My name is Rocco and I'm new to the site, but here's my two cents. BTW, good topic to discuss.

Originally Posted By: Charlie24
What role do fantasies play in our lives?

I do think that fantasies play a special role in our lives as sexual abuse victims. As mentioned before, they are safe, in that we don't have to trust anyone to get sexual gratification. It is just me myself and I when I masturbate. And because they are safe I don't have to risk real intimacy and vulnerability with a real person. If solely relied on for sexual gratification this can obviously lead to a lonely life, which it has for me.

The content of my fantasies is most likely also related to being sexually abused. That is, I have in the past only "gotten off" to fantasies that involve violation of trust or social mores in some way (with me it is fantasies about married women or about adult relatives). I think this is directly related to having been sexually abused as a young boy, because violation of a sacred trust and a social taboo were both a part of my early experience of sexual abuse. I think fantasies are unhealthy if after you have them you feel bad, shameful, or guilty. Only in the recent past have I been able to change some of my "masturbation fantasies" to ones that don't make me feel bad afterwards.

Once you begin to see what role sexual fantasies play in your life I think you can begin to see that there are choices involved. What I mean to say is that there may be other fantasies that we can substitute for the, let's just say, "shameful ones", which still get the job done but which don't make us feel bad afterwards. Although they may not be as tempting as our default fantasies which have been played over and over again in our minds, but which might make us feel bad afterwards, they still work and in time could possibly become our default fantasies.

Thanks for the opportunity to contribute to such a great discussion,


Edited by Casmir213 (05/27/09 07:17 PM)
I see recovery as a lifelong journey rather than a final destination, a journey, though, which can have many successes along the way.

WoR Alumnus - Hope Springs, OH, October 2009

My avatar is the farmhouse at the Hope Spring, OH WoR. It's a nice place.

#293263 - 06/27/09 02:59 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Casmir213]
h.beat,h.break Offline

Registered: 06/05/09
Posts: 124
Loc: New York

I can't say that I always fantasized about being with my cousin or my oldest brother, but I have always fantasized about the activity I did with my oldest brother except with other men. This went on for years but I would act them out through masturbation via male/male pornography. It kept my virginity in tact for 27 years until I finally began acting out my fantasies.

While I feel a division in my own sexuality, I also feel that what happened between my oldest brother and my cousin have a lot to do with how I interact with men and women. My acting out with men actually take me back to my abuse because I don't ejac. after the act. With women, I give my all to them except sex. I leave both of them frustrated and burned and I leave just burned.

My ideal fantasy with a man is someone who is going to be the way an older brother should be(the way my older brother wasn't). With women, my fantasy is to have her listen to my wants and desires rather than me listening to hers (the way my own cousin was). My cousin always asked me if I loved her and I spent time after time reassuring her that I did. What I desire from both and how I interact with them is always fantasized about in my head.

They are constant and it's hard to ignore sometimes because I come close to what I want even though I always go away with nothing. I feel stuck in this cycle and I just wish I could get out of it.

Hey, if "black sheep" means you're the only non-douche of the family, take that with some pride.

#295004 - 07/12/09 07:07 AM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: h.beat,h.break]
Charlie24 Offline

Registered: 09/28/08
Posts: 562
Guys I'm glad you all have been able to share in this topic with me. Being able to talk about these things in a safe and open environment is helpful.

There is so much more I wanted to originally say, been biting my tongue for the longest time for fear of being reprimanded.

I know that we have to be careful what it is said here because it's a shared community and some things are better said in private.

I really enjoyed all the discussion this topic has brought about guys. Kudos.

Knowing that I have feelings and things that may seem a little off, being able to express them and understand that a reaction to the abuse, can explain things, get some good answers it helps.

Growing up I've said many a times, my father shamed me in so many ways.

Explains why I apologized for myself for the longest time.

No need to be sorry for being me.

Part of me wondered if what I was fantasizing about, was going to determine my sexuality, maybe tell me if I was gay, straight or bi. Well it just kinda made it more confused. Not good of course.

I was having some fanstasies about my abuse.

In addition poor self esteem contributed to my fantasies as well.

When I hate myself so much that I don't wanna be me, I wanna be somebody else, I've got a problem.

How to fix that is a challenge I think, not to sure.

Why can't I just shake an 8 ball and get all the answers I want, oh well. Here's hoping.

#301495 - 09/03/09 07:21 PM Re: Those Fantasies of our Minds [Re: Charlie24]
justplainme Offline

Registered: 09/01/09
Posts: 472
i guess we all have to understand that we were cheated, u know u got delt a lot of mis-information, the healthy sexuality that one develops with age and growing up in a safe enviroment promotes was not to our disposal. we got a whole bunch of gaps when it comes to social interactions and trust, intimacy , etc. dont let ur mind fool u into believing irrational things, listen to you heart.
my greatest fear is becoming the worst things that happened to me. but i know that no matter how hard they try to seep in, they not willing to give up the fight, and to stop the vicious cycle. Your brain is compensating for this mis-information. be aware of ur emotion and know urself everyday, ull find that you ARE WORTH AS MUCH AS WE ALL ARE, and that theres never been a better time to be you.

"you cant change into something else, unless you know what you are"
bruce lee


"Survivors need an opportunity to define their own sexuality in their own terms, rather than in reaction to the abuse, so that they stop allowing their offenders to have power over them sexually."

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