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#246556 - 08/26/08 02:58 AM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: terpprm]
MusicMan Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 11/23/03
Posts: 146
Loc: Elmira, NY
I have been seeking out trying to set up something like this for quite a while. I am really very interested and will do whatever I need to do to make it happen. Just let me know.

I absolutely agree, too, that I have seen it happen on a few occasions here when people are triggered by the mention of God or church and it turns into a needless debate with hurt feelings. I don't want to see anyone hurt or feel threatened or intimidated in any way. That is why I am extremely motivated to start room or circle or whatever you want to call it for Christian guys to be able to feel free to discuss our struggles according to our beliefs.

I want recovery for all of us and we are all together in this. I think that I speak for all of us who are interested in setting up a Christian room or circle, that we are not excluding ourselves from helping or being there for anyone on this site at any given time. We would just like to speak freely about our recovery from a blblical prespective without making anyone else uncomfortable.

Sans, please let it be known that I care about you and your recovery. Just discussing this subject here makes you uncomfortable. If we created our own place, you would not have to worry about us making you feel any negative feelings. That would go for anyone on this site who might be uncomfortable.

With all of that said, guys, absolutely, please count me in on this venture and let me know, someone, if there anything that I would need to do to speed up the process.

God bless,
John, The Music Man.

#246611 - 08/26/08 05:43 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: MusicMan]
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
john i appreciate your comments.

though i have already stated my concerns, i want to clarify that my objection is not because of my own discomfort. it is not for selfish reasons that i object.

truth is i am allergic to the exclusionary mindset that often times accompanies evangelical systemic thinking, and through my life have experinced these expressions of 'christianity' to marginalize rather than liberate. to divide rather than unite.

i simply think that male survivor board needs to pay careful attention as special interest groups arise, even from within its own ranks, and begin gradually to acclimatize the spirit of the community with its own particular bias, casting like a shadow the pall of its personal personal belief system on the general character.

if this organization is going to allow its website to be immersed in the waters of christian baptism, then it misses its mark. or maybe it doesn't?

btw, i profess to be christian in the fullest sense of the word, and by that i mean that as a person gifted with homosexual orientation, in spite of what some may have us believe, i personally have experienced transformation through the ministry and life of christ, finding no stumbling block, moral spiritual or otherwise, and therefore see no point to making religious belief part and parcel of the recovery package offered through this organization.

again, i do not protest people's right to express their own corporate belief, but just raising the question of whether it is this organizations intent to support a particular perspective just because 5 or 10 or 15 or 100 people want to do so. i have no desire to control the outcome, just to know what to see when i look at this organization.

thanks for listening, and now i remove myself from further public commentary on this subject.

respectfully, your brother in nonspecific recovery,


Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#246637 - 08/26/08 08:15 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: Sans Logos]
terpprm Offline

Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 312
Loc: Clifton Park, New York
well, i am game, we just need to come up with a time and a day. so everyone cane start Pming me the time and day that would be good, and i will make the decision based on what works for the majority. i am really excited about this.


My Story

#246699 - 08/27/08 03:31 AM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: conflicted]
terpprm Offline

Registered: 06/15/07
Posts: 312
Loc: Clifton Park, New York
movin up


My Story

#246735 - 08/27/08 01:53 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: terpprm]
michael banks Offline

Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca
I would be interested in this H/C.


To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

#247019 - 08/28/08 03:12 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: MusicMan]
Muldoon Offline

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
Originally Posted By: MusicMan
I am extremely motivated to start a circle for Christian guys to be able to feel free to discuss our struggles according to our beliefs.

Guys i just wanted to say that I am all for you having what ever Healing Circle you want. The Healing Circles are just a format of discussion. It is a way to get to know each other in a trusting way.

The healing Circle have nothing to do with the Male Survivor Orgization other than they provide us a meeting space. Look at it like the AA group that rents the basement meeting room from the local church. The church is just providing the space to meet.

I will be helping Philip get the HC going but will not be a part of it.

However if anyone would like to get a Spirituality Healing Circle going I would love to be part of that HC. I have talked about trying to get a Spirituality Healing Circle going for a year now.


Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

#281173 - 03/28/09 04:58 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: terpprm]
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
brothers, i feel an apology is in order, and this has been bothering me for a while now.

while i don't disregard any of my previous statements and concerns made earlier in this thread, with hindsight, i have become less apprehensive, and see a bit more clearly that what my main issue boiled down to was a lack of understanding at the time, based in my own sense of fear.

my lack of understand centered around a very simple idea, and over time i have come to realize more clearly that we as recovering victims of sexual assault are trying to achieve a recovery that is not black and white.

what we share in common is that we are men struggling in our sexual identities as a result of the csa or ssa. but not everyone here is like me a single man, comfortably gay/bi/whatever and accepting of myself, and believing that my god indeed accepts me as i am without question. we are single hetero men, single undefined, married gay, married hetero, married conflicted/undefined. name the combination.

i failed to understand that we are all here struggling to come to terms with the abuse, but not all of us are separate islands like myself who really has no relationship responsibility to one individual person such as many of you who are in marriages.

the truth is the major demographic here is that most of you identify as hetero and are in hetero relationships and your desire to share that recovery experience as it relates to your shared sexual values and interests in desiring to be true to the commitments to your spouses and partners. i felt threatened by that.

when this topic first came up last summer, and having recently returned to ms, i was really feeling that if i were to participate in the community that i needed to stake my own claim and not be judged according to standards that i had no interest in measuring myself by. i didn't want to feel as if i was being marginalized because i didn't [as i saw it], and was basing my fear on the assumption that all of you believed there was only one path to recovery and that that meant trying to somehow 'get back to heterosexuality'.

i can see now how wrong i was. and i can see how painful it is for those of you who may be struggling with same sex attraction while in committed relationships that it would be important for you to rally with each other around faith principles.

my fear was that those who do not experience christianity in the same manner would be frozen out of the conversation. but since i have been here for a while, i have a much clearer sense of support in general, and no longer feel as if i need to fight for my own right to be who i am.

you guys, i admire so much. what you see as a struggle, i would give my left testicle to have. especially because of how it gives you all a point of intersection, that sadly, us single gay men, cannot avail ourselves.

since i have gotten a lot more support from my church i no longer have the need to struggle against dissenting viewpoints, because i feel very affirmed and validated in my life.

i understand better how painful your struggles and how i appreciate that you definitely deserve to have all the support as you need, and that that will not diminish me in any way.

i need to remember that my own sense of safety [it is not rape to be standing in a crowd of people who don't see eye to eye on everything] is not compromised by being here, or co-existing with my brothers who may perceive faith differently.

i know this is an old thread, but i just wanted to let you all know that i don't fear that i will be erased by your strong presence here. nothing could erase me, except myself, and i won't ever do that again.

i just wanted to say again how sorry i was to misunderstand you, and to let you know how much i truly care for all of you and how grateful i am for your presence in my life.

((((((my ms brothers))))))


Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#281271 - 03/29/09 02:26 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: Sans Logos]
nathan555 Offline

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
Thank you for a most significant post,
which I feel lays down the way ahead for us to support each other as we seek our recovery.

Personally I ask for no more and no less than the mutual respect you have so clearly articulated.

As a man who was single until the age of 32 my concern is that single gay guys use your single years to achieve your recovery. You have choices we have willingly surrendered to be in and stay in our marriages.

It would greatly concern me if single guys didn't feel welcome and accepted. We are all men. We were all sexually abused in our childhood. We are all seeking healing of our wounded souls, broken hearts recovery of our sexuality.

I would leave a thought to consider,
that the rejection and misunderstanding you fear
does not come from we who are married Christians
but from those outside of ms who don't understand any of us.

Let's say 20% of church people have been sexually abused
that means 80% have not had csa.
only now we have been empowered to tell our stories is the 80%
hearng about csa. Some find us distastful, some go into denial,
some struggle, some reject us for our acting out (in whatever form) , some reject us because we have dificulties relating to people whilst others do reach out with love and compassion. They are the gems of the Church.

Jesus said to me
"but I told the parable of the shepherd who left the 99 safe sheep to go and find the one lost sheep
and found him wounded, stuck in the bushes"

hey Ron - that's us. You and me and the other guys here.

Jesus finding us, rescueing us and bringing us back into safety and restoration.

God bless

Nathan 5

#281300 - 03/29/09 06:42 PM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: nathan555]
sironsea Offline

Registered: 10/23/08
Posts: 23
Loc: Philadelphia, PA
Your post totally resinated with me and I myself am a hetro married man who has not only in the past struggled with ssa, but have always since my csa, have several issues with being amonst others in crowds, my own church and have issues with bonding with other men and building friendships with them.
I do believe that we all share the want and motivation of recovery, some are stuck in ruts trying to break free, some moving through therapy fast and making great strides and changes in their perceptions and habits, some battle relapses which arise from the flashbacks and fears that haunt us all and revisit the detructive paths and behaviors associated with our individual experiences.
I hope all this makes sence. My point is, I am so thankful that God pointed out MS to me and has provided me the opportunity to meet others like myself and break me out of my reclusive shell. Ron, your post is one which I feel is very helpful to others.
I raise my glass to you in your insight and recovery and thank you for sharing.


#281547 - 03/31/09 01:38 AM Re: New Healing Circle? [Re: sironsea]
nomansanisland Offline

Registered: 02/03/09
Posts: 156
Loc: NM
phillip... count me in ...nomansanisland

" If a man does not keep pace with his companions, perhaps it is because he hears a different drum. Let him step to the music he hears, however measured or far away." Henry David Thoreau

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