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#275231 - 02/14/09 06:20 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
um....not sure exactly who your commentary was directed towards alan; i am not entirely convinced that you actually read the original post. your response felt more like a reaction to something triggered in you, than anything i wrote. at any rate, a couple of things come to mind:

the original post was not made to 'rant' against those who would defeat gay marriage. yes, i would like to see equal class citizenship for all people, but....

i made this post to report on and rail against the large corporations and institutions, the powerful and the wealthy who believe they own this country, any thing, or idea, or person, and that any of those aforementioned can be bought or sold. so i am not clear about how that ties into your point

My point is that I (respectfully) find your (and others) rants about gay marriage to be quite silly

i don't see a rant about gay marriage here.

and btw: ouch!

we do have men on in this webcommunity who are in fact married, so such a statement seems a bit insensitive. the very substance of their lives deepest concerns silly?

and: ouch#2!
You think YOU are being discriminated against? What about us single people

well, i know that gays are discriminated against legally [over 1100 federal rights denied us, but that's neither here nor there, keep reading for my initial motivation for grinding this particular axe*] i never think it a good idea to say one persons pain hurts more than anothers. how could that be measured or verified?

ouch #3
You fail to look at the true evil going on

*"Statistics on suicide are grim. Approximately 32,000 people commit suicide each year in the U.S., and suicide is the second-leading cause of death among college students. When it comes to the subject of LGBT youth and suicide, the statistics are even darker: LGBT and questioning youth are up to four times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers; LGBT youth who come from a rejecting family are up to nine times more likely to attempt suicide than their heterosexual peers."

children in unnecessary pain is the true evil. children as victims of a flawed political system, pawns of the mighty corporations and individuals who will stomp on anything that gets in the way of their insatiable greed for more, is true evil. these same power mongers using their resources to force a particular point of view that smothers people's lives from the inside out, true evil.

just wanted to make that clarification, even if only for my own benefit. *shrug*

back to pondering.......


Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#275249 - 02/14/09 07:59 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
melliferal Offline

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Originally Posted By: Hauser
I have written about this on another thread, and no one liked my answers. In short, I stipulated that the State has no business monopolizing the definition of marriage, nor giving special privileges to people who choose to marry. There are many moral hazards that inevitably arise when we allow the state to decide what "marriage" is. For instance, hospital visitation rights can be contorted and mis-applied out of fear of reprisal in the heavily regulated medical industry. This is just one example.

You think YOU are being discriminated against? What about us single people who never find someone?

I'm outraged to think that after I die, after paying into Social Security for my whole working life, that all the money I paid into this system goes back into the pool. Oh, but if I find someone I like having sex with and sleeping and living with, oh, THAT partner then gets a check for the rest of her/his life. What a bunch of shit.

Then there is the tax code, which I won't get into. My point is that I (respectfully) find your (and others) rants about gay marriage to be quite silly. You fail to look at the true evil going on, and that is the State Monopolizing of the definition of marriage. Why not let the state make decisions about your life based on what religion you practice? Think about it. That would be pretty scary, wouldn't it?

For once, Hauser, I think I agree with you 100%. I believe that government (federal, state, and local) recognition of marriage and the things it comes with (such as tax and death benefits, which single people are ineligible for, etc) is wrong. I consider it a violation of church/state separation that favors some religions at the expense and detriment of others, which is morally wrong, and I daresay unconstitutional.

Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

#275258 - 02/15/09 12:02 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: melliferal]
Hauser Offline

Registered: 11/12/05
Posts: 2963
Loc: United States
Of course I read it Ron.

I had previously discussed this on another thread.

When you give politicians power, they will, given enough time, abuse it. This is why we should want to only give them small, LIMITED powers. If they weren't allowed to define marriage in the first place, all of this would be a moot point.

#275260 - 02/15/09 12:30 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Hauser]
Barkabus Offline

Registered: 05/09/08
Posts: 809
If they weren't allowed to define marriage in the first place, all of this would be a moot point.

Well said Alan. My opinion is this: Marriage is a dying institution so this debate is pretty much mute anyways.


My Story

#275682 - 02/17/09 09:15 PM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: Barkabus]
michael banks Offline

Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca

It maybe dead for you but not most of the other people on the planet. it is one of the hottest topics in our country.


To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

#275746 - 02/18/09 05:00 AM Re: prop h8 contributors dishonor roll [Re: michael banks]
Stephen_5 Offline
BoD Emeritus
Registered: 09/12/00
Posts: 667
Loc: Northern California Foothills
Here's my $0.02 worth.

I married my partner out here in CA in July because we've been together for four years and we love each other. We wanted the commitment of marriage, along with all of the benefits and responsibilities that it entails. Domestic partnerships have some of the benefits and all of the responsibilities and can be dissolved with a minimum of effort. That is not what we wanted.

When Prop 8 was passed we were devastated but we are continuing to fight for our right to stay married. The issue is going before the CA Supreme Court next month and there should be a ruling in May at the latest. We supported the 'No on 8' campaign locally and statewide. When the list of donors, both for and against, was made available I went online and found out who I would not be giving my business to and who I would support locally. There were a lot of protests from supporters of Prop 8 that were boycotted; they felt that they were being singled out for scorn. Well, welcome to our world! Gay and lesbian people are routinely singled out all the time for their particular scorn and ridicule. I feel no sympathy for them at all. One of the best ways to show your feelings is to withdraw your financial support for businesses and people that are trying to harm you and the ones that you love.

My husband and I are married and we always will be; no matter what happens in the CA Supreme Court. We love each other.

Take good care of yourself my friends,


I want to stay as close to the edge as I can without going over. Out on the edge you see all kinds of things you can't see from the center.
Kurt Vonnegut (1922-2007)

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