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#27131 - 10/08/04 05:34 PM 'Whether tis nobler...'
Leosha Offline

Registered: 06/18/03
Posts: 3614
Loc: Right here
to suffer the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune--or to take arms against a sea of troubles, and by opposing, end them?'

We have all had the 'slings and arrows'. We have all had the 'sea of troubles'. We are taking arms by coming here, by going to therapy, by taking medications, by talking, by reading, by learning. Does that make us noble men?

I have heard that 'character is who you are in the dark' and that 'courage is born out of fear'. Perhaps this is philosophical questioning, yet again. I don't feel noble. I do not know that I have such courage. And I do not know who I am in the dark.

Does surviving these things make us special? Make us more courageous then others, who maybe have such as much courage as us, but have not been faced by the same situations?

Sometime I think maybe I feel 'smug'. I am sometime maybe 'cocky'. Those are two words friends have used with me before. I don't think they were meant meanly, I just am fortunate to have very honest friends. But I do feel perhaps I am more prepared for life, to face it, to deal with anything it gives me, rather then someone who has been more sheltered/fortunate.

Maybe that is smug. Maybe it is cocky. Maybe even it is arrogant. But perhaps also it is 'noble'.

Sorry. I do this always. I come here. I respond for several hours. I save for last any post I may or not make. And I forget the point I am making.

Good morning and salutations, gentle noble men.


Avatar photo in memory of my younger brother Makar.

"Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted."~~~Martin Luther King Jr., 1963

#27132 - 10/08/04 05:49 PM Re: 'Whether tis nobler...'
Ivo Offline

Registered: 05/08/04
Posts: 267
Loc: Germany
Well it is too late I suppose but I should told you Leosha good very very early morning cause I saw that you again couldn't sleep \:\) .

All suffering in my life made me in some strange way better, I can not explain this. In that relation we are true nobles. None can take it from us.
At least this is my belief.


#27133 - 10/08/04 08:51 PM Re: 'Whether tis nobler...'
JustWanttotalk Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 10/01/04
Posts: 4
Leosha (I hope that is right)

I have to say that I identify with what you are saying. I have gone through many phases in what I feel has been a process of becoming who I truly am. I felt often when i was younger that i was a different person than the shy, intimated persona that I put out to the world.

I always felt that I was strong and could offer something great to the world, a friend or a girlfriend. I felt like I had bottled up who i was with this fear of everything. I went through stages of arrogance, smugness whatever you want to call it. I knew too that was not who i was. I feel that it is a stage that you have to go through on your way to real confidence. At least for me it was. Confidence is something that rest within. To me it is like a base of strength that cannot be shaken. Only mine and I suspect that many members of this group confidence base was shaken or almost destroyed when these things happen. It caused me to lose my faith in myself and scorn most people largly because of fear of trust or jealousy that they had what I thought was a normal exisitence that I wanted.

I have gone through a lot of self-eximanation and pain to get where I am today. Going through that examination helped me realize that there is nothing wrong with who I am. There is nothing wrong with what happened to me in the sense that I have no reason to be ashamed or fear judgement. It happened and there is really nothing I can do to rectify it.

I have read that a man is defined by his actions. Actions are things that you choose to do good or bad. At the point in my life that my molestation happened I had realitvly little control over the situation. I think that is one of the hardest things to overcome. You feel like you are responsible for what has happened to you and the idea that it is really negative and something to be ashamed of is perpetuated either covertly or overtly. You have to realize that while you are responsible when you are a particular age or in a particular situation often things will happen that skew your judgement on how to act at that particular moment. Often it can't be helped. I still struggle with the responsiblity and choice issue.

I feel like I have gotten way off point here. But what I was trying to drive at is I have read many books on leadership and there are a few points I remember from each. Really inspiring things that have stood out to me. The one that may apply to what you wrote is this:

Transformational Leaders have a few common characteristics. One in particular happens to be surviving a great ordeal, whether that be a war, or personal tragedy.

I have often felt like dealing with this is my great ordeal and that I would be eventually be reborn from it a better person. So you are not alone. Each of us a unique situation and a unique personality meaning that we all cope and heal in different ways.

I for one can't take medicine and therapy works somewhat but I often find myself out thinking the therapist. The best therapy I have found so far is writing my thoughts out. Hence I have come here. Not only can I write out my thoughts but I can get feedback and support from a group of people who have experienced the same thing. Often this is why my posts end up being so long. I start writing about one thing and my thoughts just get regurgatated.

I hope that something I have written helps someone. I just wanted to say that what you are feeling seems normal to me.

Live Strong

#27134 - 10/08/04 09:27 PM Re: 'Whether tis nobler...'
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...

I suppose we could be noble, we certainly had a lot of courage and faced so many battles and hardship on our many journeys through a life, that maybe should never have been so hard.

We are, each and everyone of us special, we are odd to others, but we can be very special. The dark to me is or should be a time of peace and tranquility of dreams of happiness under a heavens, opened up by moonlight with distant stars so very far away, a place to unwind after working hard.

Noble maybe, I never think that way, I hate it when someone calls me sir, I am not sir, I am the same as you.

Leo, you have found many things through the hurt, and it has indeed made you a fine gentleman, how much nobler can you ever want?



Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!


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