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#270728 - 01/11/09 03:22 AM Re: HOPE & New belief systems POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: WalkingSouth]
michael banks Offline

Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca

I have not said anything about adhering to any one principle or method in attaining our recovery or individual wholeness.
I am for keeping an open mind on all possible avenues out there.
Today I choose to fill my box with the tools that help me to find healing and recovery. No matter where or whom I recieve such tools. But I also do not want to throw out any tools which may have value in my recovery. Because of ignorance, pride or misguided self knowledge.

I only want to be the man that God created me to be. To be whole and comfortable in my own skin. To be free to be me and no one else.

I choose not to discount or marginalizing anyone or any groups ideas or methods of living or recovery. Especialy those who's methods have withstood the passage of time and helped untold number of people.(AA,religion etc...

I am neither a religious or AA zealot.
I just use that which works for me.


I wish you the best on your journey of recovery.Rememember it is a process of learning to be and not a process of doing.

Hope I did not offend you, that was not my intent.


To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

#270769 - 01/11/09 12:49 PM Re: HOPE & New belief systems POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: michael banks]
Danbuff Offline

Registered: 08/03/07
Posts: 249
Loc: NY state
Mike ,
I did not think you had any intent to offend. We are all in different places but hopefully on the way to recovery while supporting each other.I appreciate your acknowledgment as well as your comments and insights. Yes I had a reaction to your post but at the same time hold firm to my belief that change starts in the head. Our bodies respond to the internal thought one way or another.

It is equally true that perceptions influence us too.I perceived your comments to imply the intellectual process as pointless, as if thinking is useless and only doing "it" (the action) matter. Yes thinking and doing are very different but you don't do anything until you have the thought. Any plan begins with the thought.

I quote you below:
"Intellectual ideas on abuse issues and recovery are good and all. But recovery takes place when your feet are on the ground and not when our heads are in the air."

It seems better to have your head in the air to take in alternative ideas beyond our distorted self. Otherwise we may as well have heads in the sand.

When we/I spend time inside our heads on the past of course it becomes a trap and counterproductive. But time spent on alternative healthy thoughts aimed at change the improvement begins. Therefore, change the thought, change the thought, change the thought.

Anyway, I can't say more. I feel like I am going in circles. I am okay. I wish you continued healing too Mike.


When you stumble, make it part of the dance.

#270904 - 01/12/09 04:28 AM Re: HOPE & New belief systems POSSIBLE TRIGGERS [Re: Danbuff]
michael banks Offline

Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca

I don't think that the intellectual process is pointless. But I am very careful not to allow myself to get caught up in the fine print of the healing process. Because if we are not careful we tend to get caught thinking about recovery and delay actually applying it to our lives.

As you may already know. I am 12 stepper from AA. Next thursday the 15 I will have been sober for 20 yrs.
The very first thing I was taught was to immediating start working the program of AA. Which is learning to apply the 12 steps to your life. Always in the meeting I attended the new members were called upon to introduce themselves. Mainly for three reasons:
1. To get that person open up and share.
2. To allow the other members to get to know their name and some of their history.
3.To make the newcomer feel welcomed to and part of the group.

At the beginning of every meeting we went around the room introducing ourselves to as many people as possible.
To get us out of the fear of not knowing strangers and to make others feel welcomed.

The intellectual ideas behind the 12 steps are important but the practical application of the steps into our lives are even more so.
There is a saying that the most important person in the room is the newcomer. Because we learned that it is very important to help others so as to keep us from dwelling on our own problems.
You also learn that we all have simmilar problems and we are not as unique as we feel we are.

If you address and change the behavior. You thought pattern will soon follow.
You do not think yourself into fitness for a marathon do you. You go out on the road and run,run,run.

Now maybe you understand better my point of view.

Your therapist's comment about alcoholics and never drinking again is what orginally triggered my response to you. It offended me and I think it is an extremely ignorant statement.

sex is a basic and fundamental need in our lives. Which is nessecary for healthy relationships and procreation of our specis.
Alcohol is a substance which is not a necessary item for humans to consume. There is nothing wrong in drinking if you so choose.
But I for one have found it to be alot more benefical when I abstain from using this substance. I am not saying that this should apply to everybody. But for alot of people it is the best way.

Another thing that I am learning in my recovery is not to base my self-perception or self-worth on external things such as Job,income,education,length of soberity etc... But the good qualities that are inherent in me as a human being. I want to judge myself and have others judge me on the content of my character not on the external things in my life.

Thank You for this post it has been every enlightening for me.


To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

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