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#267919 - 12/19/08 05:12 PM how do you see youself as a spiritual person?
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
seems to be potentially a new crisis looming in the religion/spirituality specter in the land of malesurvivor, so in order to focus it, i was wondering if you were interested in expressing your perspective, and share with us your brand of spirituality.

not meant to be a discussion, but rather a statement; not an argument nor an apologetic for or against any one particular belief system.

how do you see yourself as a spiritual person????

pray tell.......

Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#267956 - 12/19/08 07:14 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: Sans Logos]
ttoon Offline

Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 977
The rain falls on a warm summer day and I dance in it naked as a little boy...the rain is neither created or destroyed, always in transition as it evaporates, changes and, comes back around as snow the day my oldest daughter is born.

On another warm summer day I sit with my brother as he is dying, he asks if he can hold my hand, saying, "I love you," and the rain, changed to snow, comes back around as tears. I sit on his gravesite two years later, burying my Bumblebee transormer in the dirt, next to the marker, it begins to rain.

And so it goes and, so it goes...

Thank you, ron...


checkin out for a few weeks... whistle

#267957 - 12/19/08 07:39 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: ttoon]
michael banks Offline

Registered: 06/12/08
Posts: 1755
Loc: Mojave Desert, Ca

You and others can read my outlook on my own beliefs in regards to spirituality on my post "I Believe". In this same forum.
But the bottom line is this to each their own and all have the right to express it as they see fit.


To own one's shadow is the highest moral act of a human.
-Robert Johnson-

"IT ought never be forgotten that the past is the parent of the future" John C. Calhoun

WOR Alumni Sequoia 2009

#271228 - 01/14/09 03:47 AM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: michael banks]
nathan555 Offline

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
It would be great to just express what we believe
to exchange belief and non belief
to accept that we have and own belief and non belief

I think I have said too much already about my Christian belief
except that it's dreadful for those who were abused by wolves in sheep's clothing

to all who took offence at my posts forgive me for my self absorbtion and insensitivity

Nathan 5

5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

#271236 - 01/14/09 04:27 AM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: nathan555]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2651
Loc: durham, north england
An interesting question.

Once upon a time there was a boy, a boy at the age of 7, a boy who'd just lost the site of his right eye, and most of his vision after an accident in what was supposed to be a routine opperation.

He was in extreme physical pain, and also conscious of what he'd lost.
That boy had heard of God, --- had been an alter boy in church, had thought about death and sin and hell, but really didn't have anything definite in mind beyond a vague idea that God was sort of an omniscient version of santerclause who everyone went to live with when they died.

something however happened, in a small hospital chapel in a medical center, looking through a window coloured in blue and green stained glass.

this boy felt something, a presence, a communication, a sense.

Something both blinding white and dark as space, close as a hug yet larger than the universe itself, something kind and gentle yet more than anything else.

The only word the boy knew which fitted that, was god.

The boy went on, became profoundly interested in religion. He read the bible, attended theology lectures, spoke to people of all sorts of beliefs and faiths from jews and muslims to Buhdists wikans, and kept seeing echoes of that which he'd first experience, the same force, same power, same presence.

For a while this boy even considdred becoming ordained as a priest, ---- though later gave up the idea sinse he could not accept being specifically christian.

He went through abuse, concentrated entirely upon survival, lost the sense of what he'd experienced but never doubted the memory.

When he was 16, he started to recover, and there again was that which he'd first experienced, ready and waiting. when he was 18 he had a direct repeat of that experience. He studdied religious philosophy, learnt to associate what he knew with a host of concepts and argue points, started to believe that what he'd experienced was a direct and intimate connection with that wich expands and is greater than the universe which is iternally created.

Then, slowly things changed. Like a painting in sunlight memories started to fade. Oh yes, given premise A and B God could not be C, ---- but what was God? a distant memory, unreal, irrelevant.

slowly, the boy fell into darkness and depression, and only a brutal slap of steller brightness and rejected love bought him to his senses.

He worked hard, faced worthelessness and memories, experienced moments of grey twilight and a lacitude like lead, ---- yet where was God? Where was that which he once knew so well?

Stil distant, stil unreal, stil only a faded painting, despite his efforts to remember.

And that is the way it remains.

#271319 - 01/14/09 08:47 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: dark empathy]
pufferfish Offline

Registered: 02/26/08
Posts: 6875
Loc: USA

Abuse started for me when I was 4 years old. A neighbor was making kiddie porn and used me with his son and other boys. Then a chain of abuse occurred through years. Finally I was abused in a boy scout camp when I was 12. I was tortured and sexually abused at that camp. The abuse included sexual torture. He told me many, many times with a knife pressed against my chest that if I ever "told", he would find me and kill me. During one of the procedures, I was asphyxiated. I saw light all around me. Then I revived. There were 2 more days left of that camp experience.

About 6 months later the neighbors invited me and my family to a Billy Graham crusade. My mind wandered endlessly during the events. But afterward a plea was made to go forward. I felt a pull from God's presence to go forward. I didn't.

Things continued to get worse and worse. I was a very depressed kid. I was socially almost totally alone. I was withrawing from the few friends I had. My parents were unable to be loving and had a lot of their own pursuits and problems. I lost my voice. The coach made fun of me. For 3 years I could only talk in a whisper. We moved to Denver where I began 10th grade in a socially vicious high school. I had crushes on other boys. After eating lunch all alone I would find an empty classroom and put my head down and cry. I considered suicide one Saturday night. Then I called out to God: "God help me". My depression immediately began to subside. Monday I saw the social worker at the school and told her (wrote her) that I couldn't talk. She arranged for me to have speech therapy.

Things started getting better. No more abuse. After a couple months of speech therapy, I found out that I somehow did have a voice. It was arranged for me to go to the University of Denver for counseling. I had no memories of abuse. Two years later I found a book by Billy Graham, Peace With God. I read this book and found that Jesus had died in my place. I had been trying to be "good" in my own efforts. But Jesus Christ had paid my price and I was free. I embraced this truth. This completely changed my life. I still felt all alone in many ways. But then I knew that I belonged to Christ. I knew that I and Billy Graham were Christians. But who else? This began a quest for this personal relationship with Christ.

There is more to the story but this is enough for now. Thanks for reading it.


pufferfish whistle

#271321 - 01/14/09 08:58 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: pufferfish]
joelRT Offline

Registered: 09/11/08
Posts: 1357
Loc: Québec, Canada
It was a pleasure to read - well, ok, the last part was pleasure to read. Thanks for sharing, Allen.

My Story 1
My Story 2
The longest journey we take is to self-discovery

#271326 - 01/14/09 09:23 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: pufferfish]
nathan555 Offline

Registered: 01/06/09
Posts: 230
Loc: Australia
I owe my positive spiritual experience to my grandmother who just loved God. She and my Infants Sunday School teacher had the love of God in their hearts. I have studied religion but I find theological colleges generally are intellectual and push their party position - sort of indoctrination. I have no time for that stuff.

I was at an ISCF camp in my second last year of high school and then, at church etc step by step I responded to Christ. I learnt that i could apply Matthew 6 verse 33 with confidence.
When I went to uni I met with some Christians and I saw Jesus Christ changing my life.

It's my relationship with Jesus that counts for me.

apologies to the men whoes painful memories I triggered.

I am appauled when I heart of abuse in the House of God.

He had brought memories to the surface and step by step healed much of my pain.

my journey and quest for healing continues

only last year my mother disclosed I was abused at 2
memories came flooding back including anal rape by the monsters who tricked my dad into letting them mind me.

I do believe that healing comes through understanding our thought proceses (psychology and good therapy)
and when God in His grace releases healing
and deliverance for abuse
breaking its power

I am lucky to be in a large church with recovery programes

as there isn't much for men here

this is part of my story

Nathan 5

5 depending on God's grace gives hope
6 my dark side , my hurt inner being my struggle
8 looking to the day of overcomming

#272793 - 01/27/09 03:52 AM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: nathan555]
SuperTramp7981 Offline

Registered: 03/07/08
Posts: 99
Loc: Massachusetts
Bob Marley says it for me.

Let them all pass all their dirty remarks
There is one question I'd really like to ask
Is there a place for the hopeless sinner
Who has hurt all mankind just to save his own?
Believe me

One Love, One Heart
Let's get together and feel all right
As it was in the beginning
So shall it be in the end
Give thanks and praise to the Lord and I will feel all right

Emancipate yourselves from mental slavery;
None but ourselves can free our minds.
Have no fear for atomic energy,
'Cause none of them can stop the time.
How long shall they kill our prophets,
While we stand aside and look? Ooh!
Some say it's just a part of it:
We've got to fulfil de book.

Chat Name-Lparsons

#273128 - 01/29/09 05:11 PM Re: how do you see youself as a spiritual person? [Re: SuperTramp7981]
kellygtx Offline

Registered: 07/11/07
Posts: 412
Loc: Texas, USA
This Unitarian Believes

'Well, what do Unitarians believe?', You might have heard asked. Or 'Unitarians! They don't believe in anything!' You've heard that said.

I belong to this church because I am interested in the attempt to formulate the religious response to the spiritual demands, problems and possibilities of our times. I belong to this church because I am passionate about the search for a way of being religious, and a religious way of being that is modern and mature, that has intellectual credibility and emotional integrity in equal measure; that allows us to live with simplicity clarity and compassion in an increasingly complex, confused and conflict-ridden world.

I belong to a Church where there is scope for passion and poetry in the practice of religion.

I belong to a church where human diversity is not merely tolerated, but is welcomed and celebrated.

I belong to a church where we are not afraid and not ashamed of the shapes and colours of the human heart.

I belong to a church where human frailty is not regarded as a grievous fault but as the glorious depth wherein God dwells.

And I believe that the God who is the creator and sustainer of the universe is the God who loved us all into being; that God is bigger than any belief, is greater than all our imaginings; that all our words and all our arts cannot begin to contain the endless splendour of God's all-creating love. I believe that God's voice can be heard in the holy writings of the world' s religions and that the writings of the Christian tradition have a special depth and delicacy, a special range and resonance and that all the poetry of the human heart is present in the words of Jesus. But God speaks to all the nations, to all his people, in their own languages.

And I believe God also speaks in the sunset and the sunrise and the pattern of the stars; and in the rainfall; and in the rainbow; and in the spray of blossom on the bough.

I believe that we find the presence of God within ourselves when we learn to look upon a suffering world, not with fear and bitterness, but with love and humility.

I believe that we are most fully ourselves when we walk with God in wisdom and that humility before God is the greatest wisdom, and that humility before God is the foundation of all hope of happiness in this world.

Now I ask you, are these the words of one who does not believe in anything?

I bid you Peace.


The time is always NOW. Breath In. Breath Out. Move On.

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