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#246245 - 08/23/08 04:29 PM Thought provoking
ineffable Offline

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
I've been reading books by Joe Kort.
His take on men loving men/women loving women sexualities is profound.

The latest thing that rocked my mindview had to do with what some call covert sexual abuse in the context of
shaming & name calling.

The points he makes have to do with the use of the term "gay" as a substitute for lame or defective etc.
I have heard kids as young as 5 or 6 do so (heteronormative hearsay).
Also parent's feelings about & dealing with their children possibly being gay due to behaviour or mannerisms at a young age.

The term "gay" conjures or implants adult sexuality on young souls often long before these sexual feelings even exist
or are conscious, recognized, understood or acted upon.

Reading this resonated with me on a deep level.


:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::

#246266 - 08/23/08 06:52 PM Re: Thought provoking [Re: ineffable]
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
ah yes, craig about that word 'gay'.

that came along long after i had already been terrorized into silent submission [not all of us are over 7' tall ;-)] by culture that was never reticent to express its views around the subject of homosexuality. i grew up as a secret faggot, queer, etc; these nouns became our inner labels and they were always used in sentences where active verbs were also present to suggest a cure.

obviously the suggestion worked on modern day martyrs like matthew shephard, who i doubt was feeling very 'gay' at the moment of his murder in cruciform on a barbed wire fence on a cold october night at the age of 21. no doubt in 1998 when he was brutally murdered, it never crossed his mind that just being matthew would warrant the death penalty.

once we got the 'ok' from ama in 1975 that homo's were actually ok. relief? not yet! the new hate got clothed in evangelical rhetoric that seems obsessed with pointing fingers at those oriented homosexually, while refusing to make note of the tragic state of heterosexual relationships.

well, at least now we have science on our side, even if god, according to many, still wants to spew us out of his mouth.

that's become the new reasoning and the last vestige of justification for all the hate and intolerance that is propagates today in the form of spiritual homo-cide.

and the new slang around gay labels, is born on the other side of a BIG BUT:

love the sinner, BUT......

there's the qualifier right there, the BIG BUT, giving anyone the right to bear this prejudice against another. to maybe even murder them physically if 'necessary'.

this crap still scares me even today. i guess that the victim talking in me. but, i don't care how you soften it, the murky spiritual climate of intolerance will never strike me with any less momentum, any less precision, any less impact, for as long as i am alive. a stick, a stone, a fist, a knife, a gun, a hatchet, a pair of angry hands around a neck. i'm not afraid of those; what i fear the most is what those external symbols represent: a justification to use at will the worst concealed weapons of the human heart.

shame on anyone who even dares even to consider applying such labels within earshot of a child. let them first walk from sun up to sun down in their skin. in the end, we'll see who has the millstones tied around their necks.

o my, that sounded like a curse.... i guess it is! those are strong words. shiver me timbers! i guess if the shoe fits....

now, back to my regularly scheduled preoccupation.... making lemonade and smiling all the while.

ps thanks for the new author. i look forward to checking his stuff.

Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#254296 - 10/11/08 02:58 AM Re: Thought provoking [Re: ineffable]
arronb Offline

Registered: 02/02/08
Posts: 1005
Loc: Perth
I love Joe Korts books … he writes in a clear and concise way that the likes of me can even understand LOL

His books have given me much to think about in my recent journey thru recovery, I have been inspired by him and a few other people lately to leave behind the fear “of being me” that my brother and father instilled in me.

I have written before of the great confusion & fear my father filled me with when he was abusing me and ranting about me “not turning out to be homo or he’d kill me”. I have lived the greater majority of my life trying to deny who I was because of the fear of that kind of discrimination and because despite everything my father did to me I still was seeking his approval.

School was a nightmare experience for me … kids can be and are the cruelest people around. I spent my entire time in school hiding from others because they constantly called me names, in my mind it reinforced what my father and brother were saying about me … I was a subhuman, unacceptable and a stinking faggot, not deserving of common decency or respect. The trouble was that though those kids had no idea what I was going thru, but by that time in my mind I had come to believe what they were saying about me was true. My family failed me, instead of giving me a trues sense of love was about they taught me all about lack of self-esteem, and that can be as devastating as any physical or sexual abuse and so much harder to overcome.

I have made much progress from when I was in school, but the fear of being outed ruled my life until just recently … I came out to friends and family just before coming to MS … proclaiming my sexuality for myself has been the single greatest thing I have done for myself.

Keep Smilin'

#254395 - 10/11/08 03:17 PM Re: Thought provoking [Re: arronb]
M3 Offline

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
I agree Craig. In my classroom and in the schools I work in, the kids learn very quickly not to say that in earshot of me. I ask them if they would go around and use a racially derogatory term. They turn green and say "NO!" Then I turn it back around and ask why you would use the word gay when it is almost certain that there are gay kids hearing you insult them just as you would an African-American student if you had used the N***** word. I can't believe people let their kids say, "That's so gay" if they would't allow them to say "That's so ______" (place your racially relevant word here).

Thanks for bringing this topic back to the top Arron...


#254441 - 10/11/08 07:27 PM Re: Thought provoking [Re: M3]
sunwolf Offline

Registered: 09/20/08
Posts: 225
Loc: Indiana
Since I was a sensitive guy , my school years were a hell...I was bullied and pointed out and called names etc seems that when you are a shows in your face or demeanor...i was no partocularly feminine...but not really too masculine..but kids were always teasing and bullying me.. calling me a "cute girl" or 'fag" etc...I liked girls alot and had a crush on this partiocular beautiful girl..i felt aweful when someone called me a fag in front of her...those terms diminsih you and your self esteem...


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