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#189348 - 10/31/07 10:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Buernt]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR

Thanks so much for sharing. Your experiences mirror much of what I am going through now. I am currently engaged and am afraid of breaking up the marriage down the line because of my yearning for men.

But what is that yearning and does it NEED to have so much control over me?

For once in my life, I am learning how to be there for someone else. I am learning what my fiance needs emotionally, and am taking immense pleasure in giving this to her. What makes it difficult is the doubt - If I tell her I'm committed and whats more, really BE here for her now, is that a promise I can't keep? so I resist being close NOW to her. But, time and time again, I am telling myself "I am committed" and I tell her, and the love I feel she gets from me is warm and whole.

And then at times, she showers me with the same and it takes all I have to just ACCEPT it without questioning if I deserve it.

God, we have been there for each other so much. My love and commitment continue to grow. However, when I get excited about a guy, or start preferring to fantasize about a male friend of mine during masturbation, I feel guilty. Am I being unfaithful? Will I be unfaithful in the future in a more real way?

Your use of seeing your feelings for your wife without discounting them. That is JUST what I want. I MUST remember that I love her, that she sexually excites me, and that that we are there for each other emotionally. The seed of downward spiral seems to be when I label it as "not enough". As you may understand, I don't label my friendships with men, or my fantasies about them as "not enough" generally. But this makes sense, since I do not feel threatened by the idea of "not being attracted to men enough." On the contrary, I would prefer these attractions to go away, which seems to strengthen them and thus my anxiety and thus strengthen them more, into a vicious cycle of out of control feelings.

I'd be mighty curious to here more of your internal thinking process regarding your wife. I feel I'm at a crossroads and I can't stand the idea of losing this relationship I've built up with so much heartache and love and learning. But I know I can't live in this fear, either. She is not my savior. But, I feel for once that I care enough for someone else that I am motivated to be the best I can be for her. And for me. For US.

She told me the other day that she had a fantasy of changing the diaper of our future child and telling her she is the most loved baby in the world because her daddy loves her more than anything in the world. This made me cry. I wanted this so much. But I also want this woman's love so much, it scares me to hear it sometimes because I remember the times that I almost let it go.

#191392 - 11/14/07 04:11 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR

You sound very sure that a man will eventually feel as if he is living a lie if he doesn't admit his sexual fantasies about men during masturbation to his wife. May I ask why you are so adament about this?
Observation? Personal experience? Your gut?

#194527 - 12/09/07 06:34 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
123 Offline
New Here

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8
Loc: ( BC, Canada, Vancouver)
I have got to say something about what you said Hayden.
I believe that if you think about having sex with a man while you masturbate, you open a door in your mind. This door will be more and more open everytime you will think that having sex with a man is gonna make you feel good.
We attract what we think about.
Then, one day, things like looking gay porn will become normal and after that, the side of yourself, i mean the side who is truly straight, will become less and less powerfull and will loose control more and more of your capacity to do straight things.

One day,it happened to me and I know what I'm talking about, you gonna have to fight with the side of you that wants so much to have sex with a guy and you know what, your good side(straight side) may loose the battle. Then you may start to thinks that if you have sex with a guy, your gonna be happy, so much that you may go and have sex with another male.

I did, and I know now.

We, man, are born straight, its who we are. We have a side who want to grow happy and a side who want us to suffer a lot and die.

When you raped, you receive energy from the abuser. This energy open a part of your mind who I'm pretty shour was close.
Think about a spot of dirt. Then someone put a seed on it and what happened, if the seed was from a lettuce, its gonna be a lettuce, if it was from a apple tree, its gonna be an apple tree and if the dirt was an human being, and the seed was a raped, what is gonna grow inside of the person will become something closer and closer to a rape. It started to grow with tought, like about sex with other guy until having sex with other guy become normal and then, treated other guy like a real peace of shit, like meat like a guy who your gonna use to have sex. and whan you turn your back, you realise how you feel and the things is after who loose the first battle against your bad side, its very hard to change.

I will do everything to put away those tought about having sex with gay, even if i think they make me feel good because I know were they are from and what they want to do in my life, they wnat to destroy my life the same we it destroy the life of the guy who raped me.


#194857 - 12/12/07 12:36 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: 123]
LandOfShadow Offline

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Hi Lostone,

I have simular struggles as you describe. And thanks for your post, because I feel less alone.

I've only had relationships with men and have a 16 year monogamous relationship with a man. We have very much a relationship like a marriage--I would never cheat on him, it just isn't worth it.

BUT, I know I am attracted to women and am slowly working to connect with my body more and more. I realized recently that I never got attention from my father, and that was what I was looking for that perhaps helped get me abused sexually by men. A lot of things got deeply, deeply confused by that abuse. I say, my sexuality and abuse got put in a blender on high. And I'm spending the rest of my life trying to separate it all out. I wanted a male role model as a child--my father didn't take an interest in me. I developed a real fear, terror really in my own attractions to anyone, and found it much easier to have sex with men, who would "run the show" than women, where I felt so ashamed. I couldn't initiate without waves of fear and freezing up. It happened, I didn't know what it was or why or anything, just that I was so uncomfortable, ashamed and women were obviously confused.

My delemma now is I really would like to explore my attractions to women, have sex and find out about that part of me. But it's really terrifying to end a pretty good and 16 yr relationship to do that. Am I re-enacting abuse though? What's me and what's abuse? I feel I'll never know.

Practically speaking, I know many happy gay couples. My partner knows all this and is as supportive as he can be. I sure wish I could have had a "normal" exploration of my sexuality without the abuse, shock, trauma stuff, whether that be with men or women. Perhaps being practical in all this confusion is helpful. Try to find something that works. Perhaps with me, the abuse is just part of me now forever.

Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you

Paul Eluard

#198641 - 01/08/08 09:19 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
01 Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi Lostone and all the others!
I am new to this website. I have read all of the above and am glad that I have eventually found guys who experienced similar sex-related traumas in their childhood, that are the cause for identity issues.
I'm not sure whether this discussion has been closed, but I either way decided to comment with the hope that one of you guys may want to help me and respond to my "similar, but different" issues.
I am a 55 year old accounting professional who lives in South Africa (SA). I was married for almost 25 years before we divorced 3 years ago. I have 3 adult children (3 girls and 1 boy).
From +/-4 years I realised I was "different" to other boys, as I started "cross-dressing" from about that age, until I was 16.
For most of my life, up until Christmas 2007, I could only recall that at about age 5 I had a sexual encounter with a boy (+/-5),one of our neighbours and the girl next door (+/-3 or 4). We did not penetrate her, but we took turns to lie on top of her (with the other one below) or vice versa. As far as I can recall this was done a couple of times outside their backyard. I recall that her mother caught us and that was the last time we "played" this game.
When I was 10-12 about 4 of the neighbourhood boys varying from 10 to about 4 years old "played" on a weekly basis with our own and each other's erect penises between the shruberies in the garden of the other boy, my age. I recall that the youngest boy had the biggest penis of us all and that really confused me, as I thought the bigger boys (including myself) should have the largset penis, as he could not even cum and we had to tell him that it will only happen to him when he is our age. It really troubled me that my penis was smaller than this young boy's and he was also the one that I always wanted to touch to feel what it was like to have a handfull...
I endured a lot of mockery in junior school, as even teachers referred to me as emasculate. In our culture back then it was the worst insult a boy of that age could receive, as it was "normal and natural" for a boy to play rugby (football) and to be rough, as was my younger brother, whom my father favoured until his death at age 60, many years ago.
In high school I continued to "cross-dress" although it wasn't really cross-dressing. I would hang ANYTHING around my body and would play out as if I was a girl. Until this day I don't know why I wanted to do this, as I "fell in love" with a girl when I was about 16, but we only kissed. This "love affair" did not last very long, but at least I had now further desire to cross-dress up until this day.
A close friend of mine committed suicide during the next year and this was one of many turning points in my life that followed. I really could not understand why he did this while his parents were on vacation abroad. The idea of suicide entered my mind after this and was a struggle ever since. I reasoned to myself that if HE dis it then I had more reason to do it, as he was one of the best sportsmen of our school.
This is the point were I started struggling with depression. I've seen numerous T's, but never disclosed the possibility of being exposed to "sex" at a very young and tender age. They also did not ask anything in this regard, or suggested anything as such, even though various psychological tests were performed.
After high school I had to complete compulsary service for one year. I loathed army life, although I enjoyed the showering in the evening. That was the next time in my life when I realised that most men have a larger (MUCH LARGER) penis than I have. Although I enjoyed watching them, especially when they washed (or played with) their genitals. Many time I would go to the toilets afterwards and masturbate after I've seen their "huge" penises. I don't know whether this became a compulsive behaviour at that stage in my life, and or that another impulse "triggered" it.
I was VERY concerned that I might be homosexual at the time as this was TOTALLY unacceptable behavior in my culture. (I'm an Afrikaans speaking South African, for those who know our culture....). It was very demoralising and I was exceptionally afraid during this time of what my father and the family would do to me should they find out of my inclinations, as my father totally freaked out when he arrived unexpectedly early from work one afternoon and saw me when I was acting out and cross-dressed with my mother's clothes on my body.
During this period in the army I found out that the girl I was dating just before I went to the army, fell pregnant with my child the last month before I went to the army. I have not disclosed this to anybody (except once last year to my T - who was "amazed" with my "interesting" life up until then? I realise now, after reading your stories, that he had NO clue what I've really been going through all these years and that I need a knowledgeable T asap. (Maybe someone in the Cape Town area can be of assistance in this regard.)
Her body, however, aborted our child after 3 months of pregnancy. I hitch-hiked about 1600km (1000 miles) from the army camp to where she lived during the Easter weekend of 1971 to end our relationship (coward/brave?); I could not continue with the relationship knowing what I was experiencing/going through in the army, regarding my sexual orientation. She tried to commit suicide after I broke up with her, but survived and married another man. I have not had any contact with her ever since.
After army I enrolled at a college/university and graduated with a Masters degree in Accounting a couple of years later. It was one of the best periods in my life. I accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour of my life and the future awaited me, I believed....
During this period there were no sexual encounters, although I enjoyed the times in the showers with the other young men with their MUCH larger penises than mine. I even ensured that the guy with the largest penis in my dormitory became my best frien. It somehow did something to my ego....?, although I was never allowed to touch it, as he was straight and was dating a girl whom he later married.
After college I moved to one of the major cities in SA where I met this guy who was 4 years my junior, with the most beautiful and huge cock I've ever seen. We played squash on a regular basis. I have beaten him most times on the squash court, but he was everytime the "winner" in the showers. I was exremely jealous of him for this, as many men showed their appreciation for his endowment!! Even though he was not making any progress at night school and I was excelling!!
He became an architect and married his college sweetheart.
I qualified as a Certified/Chartered Accountant and was awarded a scolarship to work in the UK. My first real encounter with homosexual men was in the public toilets in the underground stations in London. It felt like "homecoming", as the scenes in these toilets were what caused "wet dreams" during the preceding years after (and during) my college years. Only playing and watching and masturbation.... No penetration!!
After 2 years working in London and obtaining international experience (and lots of sexual experience with gay men in underground stations, I went back to SA. On my return to SA a mutual friend introduced me to my wife to be. We got married 7 months later, as I was convinced that being married and having children, would "rescue" me from being gay; or other people finding out that I thought I was gay, as I was by this time totally confused.
I have not been penetrated by a man or have penetrated a man by this stage in my life. All that I really was interested in was to see and touch guys with HUGE cocks. (I was in my early 30's by then).
Our marriage of 25 years was stormy from the start. We had 3 children whilst enbattled in a power struggle that ended in divorce after about 25 years. I continued to meet men in public places during our marriage, and this started again after about 1 year of married life. It started after a major arguement. Only "playing", watching. touching and masturbating. At home I had to PERFORM, but my real desire was to meet men and check who had the largest penis and compare it physically with mine (one guy in Amsterdam said to me it seems I was more interested to see and touch his penis than to get to know him for who he really was - to my shame I must admit that this was the case).
I had my first penetration by a man after I was married for about 5 years. I was disgusting and I realised that this was not what I wanted sexually.
My wife confirmed after 8 years of married life that she no longer loved me and that she had found love with one of my employees. I was devasted (without real reason). She did not know of my "past" and I had no desire to tell her. Up until today I have not told her what had happened to me since my childhood, as I did not relate whatever was happening to me/us to possible encounters in my very early childhood.
I filed for divorce and after seeing a councillor, we decided to give our marriage another chance. We were not serving the Lord during the 1st part of our marriage and I decided that I was going to serve the Lord again, as it was my best years during college when I was serving Him and not my own evil desires. I tried to convince myself during this time that she committed adultery, not me, as I was only "playing" with other men, nothing serious such as penetration, etc....
Six months later I had a heart attack whilst driving back from the office one Friday afternoon. This was the second turning point in my life. I promised God that I will serve Him fully for the rest of my life if He would cause me to survive. (I did not realise my wife was pregnant with our third child at the time).
What followed was the most difficult period in my life, as I made this promise to God but had the urge to see and touch and masturbate with other men. The bigger their penises the more jealous and unhappy I would get, and the more miserable person I became. I thought it was totally unfair of God to well endow the majority of men, and to under endow me (although He endowed me with a very good brain, which somehow could not figure this out, as it had an emotional content that I did not know how to really deal with.) I asked God soooo many times in my life why has He not given all men the same size, as I equated size with manlyhood and manhood! You see, you can barely see my penis, although I recently heard that some men are "showers" and others are "growers". This has given me very little comfort since I heard this as my mind has not yet been renewed in this regard. I trust that this will happen soon as I can barely handle the effects of depression and a low self-esteem over many years, any longer. At one stage I thought it was only straight men who were well endowed, but came to realise watching gay porn that this is not the case.
During these years up until our divorce, our intimate life totally vanished. After the heart attack and a heart by-pass operation I was on high doses of anti-depressants and serious heart-related medication. I started having erection problems while with my wife, but the odd occation I was fondling a man there was no erectile problems...?
after my divorce I decided that I must try a gay lifestyle as an alternate. During a period of about 6 months and many encounters with gay men (even alloying someone to penetrate me), I came to the conclusion that this was not for me.
I still struggle with SIZE and often go to the gym mainly to check the size of other men out.
During last year I came to realise that I have difficulty with this lonely lifestyle all on my own, not dating anybody, and I could no longer bear the secret of my life what I have told you in this message. I decided to see a T who was unknown (to me), and I told him everything.
This caused some relief, although I realised after sharing with him there must have been something else that "caused" all the pain and tears and heartache over many years of depression, caused by inferiority and a low self esteem.
Once during and after a Weekend of Retreat for Men, I asked God what the origin of all of this confusion was and whether I was sexually abused when I was a child, that I could not recollect or remember. I am convinced that He revealed to me during subsequent quiet times that a younger brother of my mother committed indecent acts with me when I was about 2-3 y/o.
My widowed mother visited me during the recent Christmas period, and I asked her about my childhood and which men were allowed alone with me when I was an infant. At first she did not want to talk about it, but later admitted that this same uncle of mine at the age of about 16-18 often was asked to babysit me, then 2-3 y/o. I told her what my suspicions were and she immediately apologised and said she never knew, but that their were rumours that he and his older brother were sexually abused by the churchwarden when they were very young.
She also told me that this same brother of hers (my uncle) was accused of raping his own baby daughter when she was an infant. His ex-wife divorced him because of this and he was subsequently jailed. He also served many jail sentences after that; the reasons for this was not disclosed to me by my mother, I think because of being ashamed of her brother, as we try to live a decent live.
What should I do? Must I investigate this further and possibly get him in jail again (I have no rememberance of him doing such things to me), or must I forgive him? Is it possible that this could have been the reason for all the turmoil in my life and my obsession with SIZE and to cross-dress until I was 16?
Am I gay? Am I straight? How do I find out? PLEASE HELP ME!


#253561 - 10/08/08 01:47 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Dewey2k]
Conflicted_One Offline

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: Dewey2k
Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

Oh god...this ruined my day. Here is a post of mine from another forum, titled "Your Reaction To Other Guys Finding You Attractive?"

"It's messed up. Very rarely can I tell if a girl is attracted to me or not. Only when she's blunt about it, can I tell...I guess this comes down to me just not thinking I am very attractive. As a matter of fact, there has always been a feeling of distrust towards girls that DID show interest in me...I felt for them to see something special in me, there had to be something wrong with them. This speaks volumes of my poor self image I guess.

Anyway, on the HOCD chart comparing men with HOCD with actually gay men, it said gay men enjoy attention from other men. Me personally, I'm not really threaten and pretty indifferent......but there is an uncomfortable feeling. I also seem to KNOW when men find me attractive. I'm in NYC a lot and it seems like I'm invisible to girls, but not to men?

This weekend, I was out and there was a young kid, had to be in his early teens. Something just told me, that this kid was gay. He seemed to be following me and looking at me in the corner of his eye. He was looking at stuff that I just knew he wasn't interested in me.

There was discomfort for one reason:

WHY. Why me? I heard the term gaydar.....what does a gay man see when he sees me and smiles?

I had a feeling this kid was gay and he is looking at me? Is there some connection between gay men or what?

I remember when I first moved here and there was a bunch of kids who hung out across the street. I was shy and quite, everyone else was out going....except for the token gay kid. He was quite and shy too. Looking back on it, I feel there was like some telepathic connection and he used to look at me strange.

I don't like when a member of the same sex finds me attractive, no. Got that confirmed.

BUT (there is always a but). There has been times when I would FLEE when a girl (even ones I was attracted to!) showed interest in me. I kicked myself in the ass over it and felt conflict...but I think that's because I WISH I didn't shy away. I think I do, because I'm ashamed of my life, my looks and lack of success in my life...which I feel will result in the disappointment of both of us.

I used to half joke if I was either "too stupid or too gay" to realize a girl was hitting on me. I also question if I actually do know she she is interested, but for whatever reason, don't go along.

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