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#25079 - 08/04/05 07:24 AM He said we could have said no to our abuser
Grunty1967b Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/28/05
Posts: 861
Loc: Australia
I canít remember how I ended up having this conversation with another man in my office, but the topic came up about a young lady we knew who had just revealed she had been sexually abused as a younger girl and again more recently by the same sick perp who had groomed her previously.

Anyway, I had never (and will never) disclose to this man how I had been abused as a young boy for reasons youíre about to read. In discussing this girls abuse he comes out with this statement of how he sees no way that any child should ever allow abuse to happen to them. He cites his young son and how kids know whatís right and wrong and should not allow these things to happen. He basically said that they allow it to happen.

Iím not a violent person and have never hit another person, but I tell you, I was so close to jumping over this guyís desk and hitting him. How dare he say that a young innocent child has the capacity to understand and repel wicked actions from an abuser! I felt the personal attack on my own past and the lie that I could have stopped it.

My abuse started when I was four years old, before I even started school and before I could dress myself properly. How could I (and others like me) ever be able to defend myself against this and the damage that it would cause in my later years with full adult understanding and emotions and reactions?

Iíve posted this as Iím sure this has happened to many people before me, and Iím grateful that at that time I had already learnt and understood that I was not at fault and didnít ask for it. I hope that if this has happened to you reading this that you also know that itís not your fault.

What should we do or say to non understating people like this guy I knew? Iíd think say nothing and move on. I donít think they will ever be able to understand if thatís their position. For me, personally, I wasnít prepared to share my heart to have it trampled on by this otherwise good person. I donít hate him; I just sadly now know his ignorant views on such matters. Somehow I donít think heís unique, but I also know that Iím unique and Iím a very special non-guilty person.

Hope this may be of help to some.


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#25080 - 08/04/05 10:55 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
lostcowboy Offline
Member

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 798
Loc: Rhode Island
Right, tell him to take his kid into the lions den, and see what happens!

_________________________
"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

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#25081 - 08/05/05 06:44 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Grunty,

What one says in that kind of situation depends on a lot of things, but basically boiling down to the question: Are you prepared for this?

Prepared in terms of information to begin with. It's like so many other things: racism, homophobia, rabid nationalism, and so forth. In order to be effective it is useful to have thought over in advance what you might say, what arguments can be stated, and what counterarguments you might get back.

But there is also the element of being prepared emotionally. The issue of CSA is so charged and volatile for survivors that it might be very difficult to say anything effective, and very damaging to your recovery if the confrontation goes really bad.

I know there are widely differing views on this sort of thing, but my opinion is that I need to deal with my own recovery first and offer what encouragement I can to others in a similar situation. I would have to be a lot better off than I am now to even consider arguing with some fool who thinks his kids can "just say no". If that is all the support he has in mind for them, I just pray to God they never find themselves in a situation where their resources are put to the test.

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#25082 - 08/05/05 02:21 PM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Grunty, many times I have seen this in society, and this so called man can himself be 'abused', yes, men do get raped.

The way I live my life is to always be cautious to my every surroundings in life, it is a survival technique that I learnt from childhood, it may not be so much needed now, but I still use it unconsciously.

How can you say no, to a violent rapist who locks you in a room with weapons, I dunno, especially when you are a vulnerable kid.

Nah, they live in some different World, and it shows how naive they are, until something happens closer to home, and it is too late then.

I am sorry this happen to you at such a young age, it must have been a tragic childhood, I hope that one day the World can learn how tragic life can really be,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#25083 - 08/05/05 08:52 PM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Grunty. Yeh they could say no. But that would not do a damned thing. I screamed no and it just got worse and I was 16 years old.

I got into the same discussion with a guy at work around the time of the sex scandal at Maple Leaf Gardens in Toronto. This asshole made the comment about Martin Cruz to the effect that. When did abuse become prostitution. I totally lost it. And boy did he ever back track. I guess it was then that I came out publically at work.

This dipshit you were talking to does not have a friggen clue about abuse.

I have had guys tell me that the police used to ask. Did you say no. If they want advice on what to say I tell to say Yes they said no.

How about all the young guys who go to jail and get gang raped. They gonna say no. I think not. And a 4 year old has not authority at all

Sorry to get so hot.

_________________________
Mikey

IT REALLY IS OK TO STUMBLE. NONE OF US ARE PERFECT.

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#25084 - 08/05/05 11:41 PM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
FormerTexan Offline
Administrator

Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12137
Loc: Denver, CO
Hi Grunty.

I encountered a statement like from a friend who doesn't have a clue on the dynamics of this issue. We were discussing something about a perp in the newspaper and his young victims. My friend made a statement like "didn't they know to get away from him" or some words to that effect. In other words, why didn't the victims know better? I knew at that point I could not discuss my particular past with this man, but was able to make a couple statements such as "children don't have the defenses adults have" or something like that so he would back off a bit on his words.

If I could market the ignorance out there, I'd be rich.

_________________________
Money talks, but all it tells me is goodbye.

If I could meet myself as a boy...

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#25085 - 08/06/05 12:29 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
crisispoint Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts
Could you have said no? Could ANY of us?

Nope. Either because of physical threat, or because these people just KNOW how to find and groom the right child.

No matter what exactly we teach our kids, there may come a time when they're victimized. When that happens, they go through a time when they either can't or won't talk about it. Mostly because they believe in their own heads either the lies the abuser tells them or the sense of shame they feel because of our society's hangups over sexual issues. Or, maybe just maybe, because we fill their heads with this "you can say no" garbage until they feel they DID bring the abuse on themselves.

I've been thinking of a whole new paradigm for abuse education. Where parents and caretakers tell them what to look for and that they should be able to talk to THEM about what they feel isn't right. Where what they say will NOT be judged on just saying "no," but talking about their feelings of right and wrong.

No judgment should be made on what they can or can't say "no" to. it's very hard to say "no" to someone you either love and trust, or is in a position of authority. I know this all too well.

I probably WOULD'VE decked this guy, Grundy. I applaud you for your self-restraint.

And, no, it wasn't your fault or this girl's fault. This nimrod should find himsslef some education on the subject before he casts aspirsions on children.

Peace and love,

Scot

_________________________
There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

fromacuriousmind.blogspot.com
malehurtandsurvive.blogspot.com

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#25086 - 08/07/05 01:13 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Grunty - the bloke is obviously an idiot.

Children are meant to trust adults.

Adults are meant to be trustworthy.

Anyone that knows anything about paedophiles would know that innocent kids have no chance of escape from these predators.

If a paedophile is the type that grabs kids off the street when no one else is around, how is a kid meant to escape that.

If a paedophile is the type that grooms kids, telling them that they will be the best person ever & that kid is so innocent that they do not have any frames of reference regarding sex or perverts, how do they escape that?

Adults have to protect kids by giving them good information (age appropriate).

My parents never knew that I was abused - I hope this jerk and his son are not in the same boat!

Best wishes...Rik

*So far I have not had one dickhead type reaction from anyone that I have told in the last 20 months - god help the first one that tells me I could have easily avoided it!

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#25087 - 08/07/05 01:34 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
Grunty
there are assholes out there who know nothing and think they know everything.

Can we change their bigoted thinking?
I don't know, but until we as survivors feel ready to fight back then they're best left to wallow in their ignorance, sometimes the effort isn't worth it.

Dave

_________________________
Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

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#25088 - 08/07/05 01:40 AM Re: He said we could have said no to our abuser
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Triggrs ***************************************

Something I always remember, was that I was the only kid who would get the local paper for my dad.

I learnt to read avidly, so I could read this paper, and stored them until I could really read what was said in them.

I was reading one of them one night, and I ask my dad what rape meant? He told me to find out, and I suppose it took me about two weeks to find and relate to what happened to me.

My first big triggers, was seeing Myra Hindleys face on TV, like it is etched into my mind, I thot? How could a woman do that to those kids, but she really freaked me out for every day she lived, and the other one Ian Brady, is locked up, less than two miles from me.

He is locked up for life meaning life, and those kids graves were never found, so the family lives their lives of not being able to grieve their kids.

Dont google them unless you want to be triggered out of this World, but they scared the Hell out of me when I was a kid, and her face, and his, are etched in my mind, they were satanic.

What is new,

wake up World,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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