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#24629 - 08/07/05 01:37 AM Re: getting off
RICK57 Offline
Member

Registered: 12/31/03
Posts: 1611
Loc: ENGLAND
Larry - I've read the link & you're correct; the implications are disgusting.

I'm about to e-mail a national newspaper (UK/England) to see what there views are on this topic. I'd be interested if they can tell me how to get this information to Bush/Blair for an opinion.

*Cheri Blair is 'big on human rights', though it would be nice to see her concentrating her efforts on those that deserve support.

Best wishes..Rik

_________________________
*Never look down on anybody unless you're helping them up.
*I was seeking a way of expressing my anger - I found hope!
*There are many battles before the war is won! It can be won!

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#24630 - 08/07/05 06:09 AM Re: getting off
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Rik,

Good idea. As I said, I was shocked. We all know, on the one hand, that anyone accused of a crime should have an opportunity for a good defense, and on the other, that some lawyers are disreputable. But I was still unprepared to find a whole coalition of lawyers coming very close to boasting that even if you are guilty they still have a good chance of getting you off with their "aggressive, proactive and highly-creative defense strategies".

Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#24631 - 08/09/05 01:52 AM Re: getting off
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Everybody, yes I am making my own comment here, and it is this.

I was talking to a barrister who represented a guy of 15yo, who worked with youths. The charges were, that he r*ped two boys.

He is one of the best guys I ever met, and open and honest guy, and I dont for one minute suggest he was arrogant or aggressive with these kids, but I got him thinking.

I said to him, what would make these kids say these things? And he said, it was because they did not like this boy.

The 15yo had to go on the run, and maybe he is not guilty of it.

I said to this guy, give me a half hour with these kids, and I tell you whether they are telling the truth, and he said, how can you tell?

I said, I can tell him whether or not they are lying, and also said that it is very unusual for a boy to humiliate himself for no good and proper reason, but maybe I am wrong.

BTW, I asked him if he thought MJ was guilty, and he said that the court was given only so much evidence by the prosecution which was weak against counsel that can be bought, so the evidence was not available from past documents.

But, he also said that of what he knows, is that he is indeed guilty, without question or doubt.

If you look at it one way, you have prosecution lawyers employed by the Government, and defence lawyers you can pay for, and the chances are that the defence lawyers are more likely to win.

They have to because they have to make themselves into the best they can be, and earn loads of money, but when you deny life, in the case of MJ, it is tragic.

These kids were named and shamed right across the whole of the states.

If I had to have gone to court, and the perp got away then I dont know where I would be, and it is tragic that these kids were named and shamed.

Imagine being abused and not being believed in a court of law! That was my biggest fear in life, that if I went to court and was disbelieved.

Now these kids carry all this unwanted massive guilt for life, and does Jackson really care what happens to them, nah, he doesnt, nor do the lawyers who protected him from the truth, but their money is from the blood of children, and I hope they can find their conscience, and grieve for their actions.

I think not,

ste

Edited to say that names are protected in courts of those who take their abuser to court, and it is unfortunate that this case was different.

You will not be identified to the press or TV

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#24632 - 08/09/05 10:31 AM Re: getting off
Muldoon Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/30/02
Posts: 1428
Loc: St Paul MN
STE
Quote:
Imagine being abused and not being believed in a court of law! That was my biggest fear in life, that if I went to court and was disbelieved.
I told on my abuser Father Ryan in 1961 when I was 11 years old. I was talked into not going to the police and letting the church board deal with it. Well they told me my story was unbeleiveable and that was the end of it. One person on the board came up to me afterward.

"TOM I BELEIEVE YOU BUT I HOPE YOU UNDERTSTAND THERE IS NOLTHING I CAN DO."

I AM SURE THAT THINGS ARE DIFFERENT 44 years later and people do know that this shit does happen and will beleieve kids when they come forward. Some Attornays will do anything to make $$$$$$. Hopefully the jurys will see through the bull shit and convict these perps. Tom

_________________________
Teach the Children to Never Hide in the Silence

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#24634 - 08/09/05 02:49 PM Re: getting off
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Tom, nobody should dismiss anything like this that a kid says to them, they should be listened to.
It is totally unbelievable that they could tell you that your story is unbelievable!

I bet that sent you scurrying off to find a place to process what they said. I cant even imagine your emotions at that time, but it must have been huge.

The biggest thing about being male, is that we are not supposed to be emotional beings, and we are so much more emotionally equipped to deal with these things. What bullshit, of course we are!

Kev, if you told them your story, then that is OK, I suppose you should give them the story that you wrote out about what happened to you, because there is nothing they can change in that, because it is the truth, so send them a copy.
Better still, send it through your attorney.

The other thing Kev, is that they have a duty to protect other kids from predators like this guy, and you did the best thing by telling, cos you saved other kids too.

I praise all of your deep courage,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#24635 - 08/09/05 06:21 PM Re: getting off
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Tom: I remember seeing your story about your case, and I just want to say again how angry it still makes me. I know some people are outraged at the way the press is after the Catholic Church, but if this is what it takes to get justice for all those kids so be it. I'm just glad you are here and can talk to us about it. You were so deviously and cruelly treated - it just staggers me to recall your story, even though I had seen it previously. My sentiments are very much like Ste's. How it must have felt for you then, and even now, I just can't imagine.

Ste: You are so right about us as emotional beings. All that "take it like a man" crap is just that - total crap.

And I also agree with your point about saving other kids. I know that we are all individuals and at the time we were being abused it wasn't always easy or even possible to disclose and get any results. I bet Tom's case was one out of thousands like that. I also understand that not all of us are alike in what we can handle. Our first task is to recover ourselves. Some of us find that in order to do that we need to disclose and take assertive action against those who abused us, others find that just isn't possible.

But be that as it may, Kev should be proud as a peacock that he has done this. I think one other boy was already known to be at risk, and who knows how many others in the future have been saved by his courage.

Kev: Welcome back first of all. I hope the camping trip with your father went well.

I know it will be difficult to keep this case from dominating your thoughts, but just ask all your questions and remember that nothing you ask is stupid. When you talk about a "protection department" you must be referring to a child welfare bureau. The people working directly with you on your case in that department are probably not police officers as such. Their job is to help you, set you at ease in every way they can, and represent your interests as an underaged boy (= not yet 18). Things may get confusing because you find there are a lot of different people involved, but that is because different people are assigned different tasks. If you have any questions or get confused, just ask. If you forget and get confused again, ask again. The people you are talking to want to help you, and it's part of their job to answer your questions and make sure you feel safe.

I know this is easy for me to say, but try not to let all this dominate you - you have lots of cool things going on in your life, and also a lot of work in school soon. Give them the time they need as well.

I understand you feel awkward about crying when you were being interviewed, but look a bit further up at what Ste has just said. It's total bullshit that a boy should not cry about things that hurt him. I am not sure I could have done what you are doing now, and I am absolutely certain I would have cried a river before I got the whole story out. Remember also that you have absolutely nothing to be ashamed about. Like they told you at your interview, the shame all belongs to somebody else - you are just placing it where it belongs.

Take care,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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