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#223774 - 05/12/08 12:21 AM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: Freedom49]
Liv2124 Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 08/02/06
Posts: 159
Loc: New Jersey
Dark empathy,
In reading through your post, it seems as though what you're looking for in terms of "more" is actually what you're getting. You are developing a closeness with her and you seem to be feeling (at least from the way you describe it) more comfortable with her every time you're with her. You seem to believe you are somehow missing out on something and I think that's what you're focusing on over everything else.
Earlier in this thread, you mentioned reading through the posts here and wondering why someone can't feel this/that way about you. One thing that you have to realize is that as partners of survivors, our posts are one dimensional. Our perspective and our feelings over what we see happening. If my SO came here and read the same posts you are, he'd be saying the same thing as you. I can almost guarantee it. He has made similar statements in the past,(and occasionally, still does!) only now, I don't stand there in the same dumb amazement I used to. The grass always looks greener in someone else's yard. I'm sure that your friends, married or in relationships, have plenty of problems and issues between them that you aren't privy to.
I will often use the word "sweet" in reference to alot of the things my SO says and does. I don't think it bothers him, he's never mentioned it, (and if it DID he most DEFINITELY would've mentioned it!) There's an innocent quality to alot of what he says and does that makes me feel young again, that makes me feel good, and makes me enjoy being with him. Most men are not like that. I've been in relationships where men are rude, and I have walked away feeling "used" to a degree. I wouldn't knock being referred to as "sweet", it's a pretty rare quality to possess. As far as being uncomfortable discussing sex, well, I've never been abused, but I'm not that comfortable talking about it, especially in mixed company when there are usually crude comments being made in reference to both genders. I might have a one-on-one conversation with a friend here and there, but group discussions have never really been a favorite.
Okay, so maybe you never had an opportunity to experiment with all of this in your teenage years, but it's not too late and the opportunity is right in front of you. You're so worried about doing/saying the wrong thing that you're not even enjoying this.
And as far as her feelings, if you pay attention, they'll become clear to you before you know it. Like I had asked earlier, what will change for you if she says out loud that she likes you? If you force an "exclusive" thing, she may think that you want this to become more physical. (My opinion, again, because I would) and it sounds as though it will take time for you to work up to that.(Thus creating a new problem for yourself) So, why not continue at the pace you're going? It will give you time to works some of those things out and maybe get in a discussion or two about it.
You have to "Breathe"

#223840 - 05/12/08 12:23 PM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: Liv2124]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2687
Loc: durham, north england

the discomfort and innocense thin always confuses me quite a lot, sinse from my Pov it is actually very uncomfortable to sicusss such things. With two friends, ---- one male and one female, I've managed it more reasonably, in fact back I firt realized that I'd been abused when my male friend ---- as was our general practice during our degrees, read me his entirely reasonable and well-written essay on the ethics of pornography. It was only as I started to realize that despite the fact this was a very close friend, despite the fact that this was ethics, ---- my own teretory, I was stil feling really uncomfortable and upset, and that in fact what had happened to me in secondary school went beyonds the bounds of conventional bullying.

I've been able to gently, ---- with quite a lot of specific illusions and shared experiences to use as substitute names, sort of discussed the area with my two friends, ---- who I've sinse told about my abuse, but from anyone else, ---- even my parents I'd just start to panic as soon as the S word gets mentioned, in fact as i said, in terms of relationship advice, my parents don't particulalry help sinse they both try to push me into doing things, --- like paying complements that I'm just not sure of doing.

I really take the point Live, but the problem is that I know there is something more. I've had a lot of female friends, ---- probably slightly more female friends than male. Because of my self-isteme mirror I tend to always think that people are my friends because of some inherent quality that they possess, some kind of special tolerance of me, rather than any characteristic in myself.

When my friends have been with their partners, I've seen this sort of two way communication, something to do with being together, being comfortable with each other, sharing things in some way.

I make friends fairly easily, and i have several very close friends. i've shared a lot of myself with them, ---- in fact up to the point of telling two of them about my abuse. But I know, from watching others that there's a sharing of selves beyond this, something more fundamental, something closer.

I can't even identify it adequately in words, I know Ive felt the desire of it with some people, and I know I've seen it betwene others. I could describe it synaesthesically, in terms of it's colour and tactile feeling, but I don't think that would mean a lot to anyone else besides myself.

the closest de>

#223944 - 05/12/08 11:39 PM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: dark empathy]
antiphaedre Offline

Registered: 04/26/08
Posts: 8
Dark Empathy,

I don't know if this will be of any help but maybe you can talk to her about how you feel about dating and getting close in an abstract sort of way. Such as "I'd love to date someone and have it be this way...."

You can find out from a conversation like that if she'd be OK with the type of involvement you're comfortable with and if it seems like she is, especially if she's very enthusiastic about the conversation, maybe then you can ask her out.

Just speaking from my situation but I would love to be able to hold Guy's hand or get all cuddly with him and I wouldn't need it to be anything more than that. So there are definetly women out there who can handle your pace.

Edited by antiphaedre (05/12/08 11:41 PM)

#224001 - 05/13/08 08:51 AM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: antiphaedre]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2687
Loc: durham, north england
Antiphaedre, I've heard of such people, ---- but never encountered them.

One thing I realized with my T yesterday, is not only do I personally really dislike physical contact, but even in cases where I want to hold a girl's hand or put my arm around her, I'm afraid to sinse I imagine things from her Pov, and remember my own abuse, I'd hate to do that to someone else.

In fact again, when I considder my female friend, ---- the only girl I'm really happy about hugging on a regular basis, one thing I know is that if she didn't want physical contact, she would make it clear, ----- in fact anyone who tried it would probably end up on the floor with several broken bones.

I'm not sure how I even raise the subject with C. My parents suggest I just try complementing her on her appearence, but that feels uncomfortable to me, I'm not even sure how I get close to the idea, even if I wanted to.

I saw C again briefly on sunday, and we just chatted as friends, ---- it was at a rehearsal where we were both busy, so we didn't have a lot of time together.

I'll be seeing her again this week, but I'm stil not sure how to move things forward.

Interestingly enough, my t mentioned she'd seen us together while driving around, and said that we both seemed as if we were enjoying each other's company, ---- in fact she initially thought C was the close female friend I've mentioned because we were so comfortable together.

#224017 - 05/13/08 11:54 AM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: dark empathy]
Marissa Offline

Registered: 05/06/08
Posts: 69
Hi, Dark Empathy -

As I am new here - I am going to keep this observation general.

You seem to be quite well versed in all the reasons you can't have a relationship in the way you want it. Which is great - awareness is the key - but perhaps you could pick ONE element of that and start initiating some thoughts on how to change that particular element. Seems to me you just keep spinning your wheels - so perhaps you just need a little "push" to get going, you know?

For instance - paying her a compliment. This clearly causes anxiety for you - but at the same time, it's a pretty normal thing that most people do, so it is indeed a skill that can be practiced and learned.

How about saying over and over again - out loud - "Hi, C! You look real nice today!" in the mirror until you've done it so many times you could do it in your sleep without breaking into a sweat or feeling anxious about it. Remind yourself that they are just words, and they are kind words, so it's OK to use them. Then when you see her - you say it. There, done.

Then you will have taken a baby step in the direction you want to go.

It's all about baby steps....


#224138 - 05/14/08 07:29 AM Re: Have I said something stupid? [Re: Marissa]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2687
Loc: durham, north england
Marissa, please don't think that the fact that your new here disqualifies you from giving advice or making observations. your here, your posting, and your husband is a Sa surviver, ---- in fact his experiences actually resemble mine to some extent from what you've said.

I really appreciate your advice, and the advice from anyone in this forum who's either a surviver or the partner of one, ---- one reason I post about this stuff in F&F.

Your advice sounds good to me. Complements are something I just find difficult, but they might be the safest way of moving my friendhship with C on a bit.

Your right in that it feels as if I'm going around in circles here, and I also know that I'm not the world's most patient person if I get no perceivable progress with something, however small.

Edited by dark empathy (05/14/08 07:32 AM)

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