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#249932 - 09/17/08 06:30 AM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: JustScott]
1islandboy Offline

Registered: 06/23/08
Posts: 906
Loc: washington
I personally, don't like the thought of USING anyone.

I would like to think that I am GIVER.(or perhaps a RECIEVER).

I feel, there is a HUGE DIFFERENCE, even though the physical act remains the same.

That being said, if my girlfriend had a fantasy about being used,
I guess I could go there.

I feel,it is crucial for me, in trying to establish a healthy relatinship to have my default mindsetting on GIVER...!!!

(Got this GIVING concept from a manual)but,Isn't it true...???

Maybe I'm just a dried fruit. (being silly)


Rise above the storm and you will find the sunshine ~ M.F. Fernandez

#249952 - 09/17/08 01:46 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: 1islandboy]
ineffable Offline

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Originally Posted By: 1islandboy
I personally, don't like the thought of USING anyone.

Hey ya dried fruit. Thanks for responding!

That's just it isn't it? Or at least it is for me.
The thought.

When we kiss someone, we USE our mouth.

If I am in the moment thinking whether I am using or giving or receiving I am in sexual "difficulty".
In other words, I am not in my body I am now in my head.
I ain't present for myself or my partner.

A good friend brought my attention back (no pun intended) to the use of the word "momentary" in the original quote.
I am hypervigilant against using somebody or feeling used because of what that concept means to me.
Looking back now with this new "food for thought", my hesitancy & inhibition makes more sense, albeit misguided by
my SA experiences & subsequent decisions that "that will never happen again to me" or
"I will never do that" or "I will never be that way" to anyone.

That was then, this is now.

From the original Healthy Sexuality Defined:

"Uses vulnerability for excitement"

Being at peace with the concept of using or being used would allow for this IMO.

Hope yer having healthy sex island.


:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::

#249957 - 09/17/08 02:58 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: ineffable]
NY Daisy Offline
New Here

Registered: 02/29/08
Posts: 183
Why does it have to be one person using or taking advantage of the other? Sex to me is a basic need, just like eating, and sleeping. It is part of what bonds 2 people together. I like and thrive off of the closeness I feel towards my H, when this part of our relationship is working. The sun shines better, the birds sing,the roses smell even more heavenly......

Sex is also about give and take. Sometimes I am more the giver, sometimes I am more the taker. And vise versa. Sometimes we are both giving, and sometimes we are both taking. Sometimes it is raw and powerful, sometimes sweet and tender. It all depends on the day, the time, the mood, is always different.

To me it is all good, if my H is in the mood and I am not, if we do go for it, I don't feel used, I am doing it for him. I love him, if Im in the mood, and he isn't then it is my turn, I hope he doesn't feel used??? Now I wonder, I'll have to ask.

Scott, if my H had told me that I was looking hot, and just wanted to "use me" I would have felt like a million bucks, and he would have been greatly rewarded. does she even know? That seemed to me to be a potential win-win situation for both of you, I'm sorry this had to get in the way.

Island, give,receive, enjoy!!!


#249960 - 09/17/08 03:17 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: NY Daisy]
ineffable Offline

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
Before we go any further let's look at this too.

use [v. yooz]
-verb (used with object)

1. to employ for some purpose; put into service; make use of: to use a knife.
2. to avail oneself of; apply to one's own purposes: to use the facilities.
3. to expend or consume in use: We have used the money provided.
4. to treat or behave toward: He did not use his employees with much consideration.
5. to take unfair advantage of; exploit: to use people to gain one's own ends.
6. to drink, smoke, or ingest habitually: to use drugs.
7. to habituate or accustom.
8. Archaic. to practice habitually or customarily; make a practice of.

-verb (used without object)

9. to be accustomed, wont, or customarily found
(used with an infinitive expressed or understood, and, except in archaic use, now only in the past): He used to go every day.
10. Archaic. to resort, stay, or dwell customarily.

Part of the reason I wanted to dialogue on this was to identify what we project or transfer when
we think of "using" or being "used".

Hope the dialogue continues.


:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::

#250027 - 09/17/08 11:20 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: ineffable]
blueshift Offline

Registered: 01/21/08
Posts: 1242
Loc: infinity
I'm screwed up enough by my abuse that for me to get turned on at all I have to think of it in my head in terms of victimization either of me or of the person I'm with (usually depending on whether it's a woman or man or whether I'm bottom or top).

It isn't easy to admit and it's generally just my little secret that I keep to myself and use in my head when I need to cum or keep an erection.

I'll never forget the tears on my girlfriends face when I tried to keep my head in a place that I considered "normal" and "healthy". After that I concluded that not getting turned on was far more hurtful than having sick fantasies during sex.

The thing I struggle with now is not trying to rewire my brain somehow (I gave up on that) but trying to accept myself that way and not see myself as a "pervert" or "f ed up in the head" or "sick and twisted". This is a challenge.

My Story
My Art

#250037 - 09/18/08 12:38 AM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: blueshift]
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
The problem with what you have been doing for so long is that you are conditioning yourself with the orgasm to the fantasies of victimzation. The pairing of the images with the physical sensations only makes the connection stronger.

You should consider going to see someone who is a sex therapist. Check out this website for someone who is certified and can likely help you:


Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#250102 - 09/18/08 03:13 AM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: Ken Singer, LCSW]
M3 Offline

Registered: 09/05/07
Posts: 1392
Loc: Central Ohio
Doug, you aren't alone in that. And you are right, it is a challenge, but one that can be overcome. Hang in there...

Peace and love...


#251261 - 09/26/08 08:06 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: M3]
ineffable Offline

Registered: 02/07/08
Posts: 1371
Loc: state of holeecrapdood
A good friend of mine recently said he thought I get misinterpreted a lot in my threads.

This topic has been kinda hit & miss or even throw & stick.
Meaning throw it out there & see if anything sticks against the "wall" of shame still surrounding
a sense of recovering healthy sexuality.
Perhaps MS isn't a place where healthy sexuality is even discussable?

One more kick at the can of lube.

A premise compliments of a book on arousal & the use of sexual fantasies as antidotes to unconscious core issues.
Like guilt or worry or shame.

It has to do with rescue fantasies or the prospect of healing or fixing a partner.
(which is why I think it is relevant here).
Making the other feel powerful or desirable.
That sexual attention helps their self-esteem.
These thoughts or fantasies are a means of overcoming guilt as in:
"I'm not hurting you, I am helping you. I am a good person, not a bad one."
They are a way for us to feel important because they negate worries about being unimportant or useless,
thereby making sex safer & almost righteous?
When I read this it resonated deeply with me & it also seems to support some of the points in the
"Healthy Sex Defined" values list in an indirect way.

Any thoughts?


:: "Anyone who can handle a needle convincingly can make us see a thread which is not there" ::

#251279 - 09/26/08 09:59 PM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: ineffable]
Sans Logos Offline

Registered: 05/31/03
Posts: 5796
Loc: in my own world in pittsburgh,...
Perhaps MS isn't a place where healthy sexuality is even discussable?

now, now craig, we know that is not 100% true. i think, say 10% of the community have a shameless and unapologetic attitude toward the topic of healthy


now you've got me all distracted. soon you'll be waving big bowls of chocolate ice cream in front of our faces. how am i supposed to concentrate with sex and chocolate staring me in the face? disgusting!

i think you enjoy starting threads that pander to the lowest common denominator of human being.

don't you know as civilized human beings, we are beyond such triviality?

i never.......!


Ron Schulz, MSPC, NCC

#251379 - 09/27/08 08:02 AM Re: Recovering Healthy Sexuality [Re: Sans Logos]
Trucker51 Offline

Registered: 05/21/08
Posts: 2826
Loc: Denver, CO
Hi Craig:

I have discussed this topic with a few other people recently and my feelings are in-line with the ones expressed by NY Daisy. The end result is more about pleasing your partner and meeting their needs. But how did I get there from where I was, feeling used, to being able to be intimate and enjoy giving? Perhaps what you are reading is worded a bit off. I would re-word the one statement "Achieves vulnerability through intimacy". Your focus on sexual attention bringing increased self-esteem focuses on the end result, not on the benefit of intimacy enroute to the sexual act. Certainly having enjoyable sex can make anyone feel good about themselves. Enjoying an intimate relationship is far more beneficial than just a single simple sex act. A single act with no long-term attachment could be viewed as using someone.

And as for getting to that point, it wasn't immediate in my own recovery either. It took me about 2 years of slowly increasing my confidence to be able to respond in a positive manner to an eligible young divorcee that I had been introduced to by a mutual friend. After that relationship ended 3 years later, instead of going off of the deep end again, I began a search that ended with meeting my current wife 28 months ago. Our relationship has been a learning process as I am proud of my progress and on occasion she thinks that I still need to work on this or that. We are trying to work our issues together though.

I would say that as your personal successes in recovery breed greater confidence and your self-esteem begins to substantially recover, you eventually get to the point where taking a chance on intimacy becomes a possibility. The key is looking forward to your future possibilities in a healthy and positive manner while looking away from or letting-go of, our fears of our inadequacies, and our fears of rejection.

Take a chance, my man, ride the Reading. If you pass Go, you will feel a lot better about yourself.

Just let yourself go,


"We stay here, we die here. We've got to keep moving". Trucker Mark

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