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#210071 - 03/11/08 03:40 PM Love and how to get started?
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2716
Loc: durham, north england
I'll warn everyone in advance, this ones likely to be long, but it's a really central issue that has caused me a very serious and major amount of pain for years. I wouldn't normally want to lay this on anyone or cause trouble, but I've realized recently that this is something which just isn't going to go away, or something I can get through on my own.

I'm posting this here because this is as much a question for the gf's and wives of mail survivers as it is for the chaps I've been talking to on the ms forum.

Okay. for people who don't know, my abuse all happened during the four years I was at secondary school (that's ages 11 to 15 for people outside the Uk, and was mainly perpetrated by girls. Because of this, I have a great fear of being touched, ---- particularly in certain places, as well as a dislike of explicite language ---- or even the S word.

the problem is, that when i was 18, I went and did something very stupid, ---- I fell in love. the girl in question was a friend of mine who I'd known for the previous two years, who had a very perminant boyfriend. It took me two years to even admit to myself that I felt something more for her than friendship. When I left that school to go to uni, I finished by telling her the way I felt, though she said she already knew. She gave me a kiss on the cheak and I told her she was the first girl who'd ever done that, ---- she said she wouldn't be the last, and the next would be my girlfriend.

I got the utterly insane idea that someone could actually have feelings for me from this, ---- though as it's turned out I couldn't be more wrong, as I'm now 25 and a post grad, and that was probably the most physical affection I've comfortably had with someone, even a hug or a tap on the arm makes me tense up, even from a close friend.

In the first year of uni, I was stupid enough to fall in love with someone (again a friend), who had a perminant bf, and had an incredibly painful experience, ---- though this time without the kiss, though said person was also incredibly kind and understanding.

Sinse then each year I've started feeling myself begin to fall for someone (usually who I'm certain has a perminant bf and feels nothing for me anyway), I've stopped myself to avoid the pain.

my desire to have someone actually love me, actually feel for me what I feel for them (though I know how impossible that is), has really! hurt!

Last october I ran into a girl (oncemore someone I was friends with), who I realized I was going to fall for. She was incredibly physical, ---- and for once I wasn't petrified, and I'd heard nothing about a perminant bf even after knowing her for several weeks.

I've got some wonderfully kind friends of both genders, and they advised me that because of the very unfair social conventions, I couldn't just wait for her to make a move even if by some insane miracle she did have some sort of feeling for me, and simply telling her how I felt would not be a good idea. As I am visually impared, eye contact was out (though I can recognize people's facial features at close range I can't do facial expressions), so I knew it'd have to be physical.
, So, I asked her to a concert, and to have a drink, and she agreed very inthusiastically. Afterwards I summoned all my courage and held her hand for a few seconds, which was one of the hardest things I've ever done in my life.

She then explained that "her heart was already given" and I completely broke down (I ended up crying all over her). I couldn've have asked her to be more understanding and kind about things, but at the same time, she made me realize i wasn't quite as completely fine about what had happened to me as a teenager as I thought I was, and brought up all this stuff which I'm now here, trying to deal with.

So there it is. What I want most in the hole world is something that is both impossible, and that I'm petrified of attempting to get, yes, I am an idiot.

Anyone I happen to fall for is always a friend, ---- in fact it took me four years to recognize that the attraction had any sort of physical element at all though I now do recognize that this is part of it, --- which is just another thing that hurts, ---- that the physically closest anyone has ever wished to get to me has been while both hurting me and verbally insulting me.

I'm trying to deal with my issues about acceptting that others might have at least some sort of feelings for me and aren't just being kind with my T,but what i'm actually here to ask is, ---- given this stupid social convention that the male has to make the first move, how the heck do I even show someone I have feelings for them? How did the other Male survivers do this with their Gf's etc?

Even when I assumed I was fine, this thing caused me a great deal of pain, so I'd really! really! appreciate help dealing with it.

I'm incredibly sorry about the long and rambling post, and about dumping all this stuff out here on people.

Edited by dark empathy (03/11/08 03:49 PM)

#210080 - 03/11/08 04:17 PM Re: Love and how to get started? [Re: dark empathy]
MemoryVault Offline

Registered: 03/02/07
Posts: 693
Loc: NJ
Hi, dark empathy --

I'm so sorry for the pain you're going through. I hope you get a lot of helpful and encouraging responses here. Your post reminds me of something that used to happen to me a lot. This may or may not be true for you, but it was a pattern I saw in my own relationships--something I fight with today.

At first I thought I was connecting with people--guys, in my case--who all just happened to be unavailable. (Turned out to be married, turned out to be in a relationship, turned out to be clergy (!), etc.) After a bunch of these, I realized that I was being drawn to them because they were unavailable. They were great people, but somehow I felt safe with them because they weren't "threatening" me with a life together and all the triggering stuff that involves.

The point is that I wasn't ready for a relationship--I just wanted someone to be close to-- and I was finding unavailable people to do the running away for me.

Like I said, this may have nothing to do with your situation--but if you're in a pattern of falling for women who are already in relationships, it may be that you're feeling divided about wanting a relationship. It sounds like you're doing fine showing your feelings--nobody seems hurt or offended when you do. They care about you. It doesn't sound like anyone's rejecting you because of anything about you--they're just involved with someone else. How would you feel if you knew a woman who liked you and was available? Would it be threatening, or would you be ready to see what happened?

Best of luck!


Edited by MemoryVault (03/11/08 04:20 PM)

#210092 - 03/11/08 05:03 PM Re: Love and how to get started? [Re: MemoryVault]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2716
Loc: durham, north england
Hi David, thanks for getting back to me on this one.

I think I experienced what you describe to a degree, ---- certainly on the first two occasions I mentioned, when I let my feelings get out of control. It's also quite interesting that I met my closest female friend, who is probably the only girl I can accept a hug from and not feel threatened, in my first year when she both didn't have a bf, and felt as if she'd never get one (sinse she's both highly individualistic, and russian). Despite the fact that we quickly became very close, neither of us felt anything else for the other. though that's a point that has also hurt, ---- sinse despite her initial feelings she's now happily living with bf number three and planning on getting married.

But from my second year of uni on, there was always with me an element of hope, and an amount of disapointement everytime i found out that whatever female friend I'd fallen for was already in a relationship.

But with the events of november the eleventh last year, I was almost certain at that stage that she didn't have a bf, ---- in fact I asked around my other friends to find out if she had (which was how she in fact knew what my feelings towards her were, which she would not have known from just me taking her hand, ---- as I said, as a matter of course she's naturally incredibly physical.

If I'd believed that this was just another one of the same sort of things I'd been going through before, I wouldn't have invested the huge amount of pain and effort it took for me to get around my physical contact block.

#210554 - 03/14/08 12:28 AM Re: Love and how to get started? [Re: dark empathy]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2716
Loc: durham, north england
I'm really sorry about double posting, but I've run smack into a realization today that's hurt a lot.

i could write a huge wrant on the subject, but I'll keep it short and sweet. I'm really sorry if this offends people, I'd hate to cause anyone problems here, but I'm feeling as if my head will explode at the moment.

I read yet another post today about how much someone loved her Bf, despite the fact that she believes he's suffered abuse. Recently, I've begun to assume that it was my abuse which stopped me forming relationships with people.

the more i read though on this forum, the more I read on this particular forum, the more I'm questioning that assumption. If people can have these wonderful feelings for other chaps who've been abused, ---- what's! wrong! with! me! heck! I even recognize the symptoms some people have described in their bf's and husbands as things I've noticed in myself.

I'm really sorry, I kno that's terribly self pittying, and I know it's not a fair question for me to ask people who have their own really genuine problems. But if I don't write it I'm going to burst.

so once again: what's! wrong! with! me!

#210580 - 03/14/08 02:58 AM Re: Love and how to get started? [Re: dark empathy]
Lou Offline

Registered: 11/11/07
Posts: 100
Dark Empathy,

I am sorry to hear that you are hurting.

I can sort of relate to what David said above and I too wonder if perhaps you are drawn to women who are unavailable? As he said, do you feel safe because they are doing the running away?

I also don't think there is anything wrong with you. I am sure that you have a lot of very good qualities and when the time is right it will just happen.

Being single and in the dating game is not fun for anyone. Just because you have met a few women and they happened to be taken does not mean that there is anything wrong with you, it just means that you have good taste and were attracted to women who just happen to be taken by other men who had good taste too.

The one thing I do know is that if you ever want to find a special someone to spend your life with, you can't give up. They are not going to come knocking on your front door. So, I would make every effort to get out and about as much as possible.

Also, here in the states anyways I think it is perfectly fine for women to be the ones to make the first move, in fact I have been told by several of my male friends that they actually like it when women do that. So, I personally would put my antenna up higher and fine tune my radar equipment and see what happens.

Best of luck to you!

#211293 - 03/17/08 09:41 PM Re: Love and how to get started? [Re: Lou]
dark empathy Offline

Registered: 11/26/07
Posts: 2716
Loc: durham, north england
Hello Lou.

i actually meet plenty of people, sinse one of my major interests on is light opera and singing, and about%70 of the people who do that are female, I run into a lot of girls even not counting those I meet around uni.

the problem is I find it utterly impossible to believe that anyone could have feelings for me, ---- even my friends I tend to think are just being exceptionally nice.

I know there are some girls who ask boys out, and I've been waiting for someone to do this for years, but it's increasingly not happened, and I've began to feel that it never would. so last november, when i got the idea that said girl had! in fact got feelings for me, I tried! and ended up in more pain than ever before.

I've often wished I was female, sinse it seems that for the most part, girls just sit around and wait to be asked rather than having to do the asking.


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