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#198255 - 01/06/08 09:11 PM Struggling as well
mogigo Offline

Registered: 04/25/07
Posts: 1331
Loc: Colorado
I was asked a question the other day and can't seem to come up with an answer.

"What question would I need to have answered before I could believe again"?

My obvious first answer is "to be shown proof" but obviously this is the one that can't be answered. Would love to hear anyone else's answers if you can. Especially from those who questioned at one time and don't anymore.

Stay strong


#198734 - 01/09/08 06:34 AM Re: Struggling as well [Re: mogigo]
froggy12 Offline

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
I still question, I still wonder but know that the belief of my youth had to change, to grow or falter as I grow and falter, mature, (hopefully)doing all that stuff called 'living.'

Thoses who preach the truth, so they say, make me nervous.
I want to see what you do, not what you say.
Or to paraphrase, how can you say you love God whom you do not see, but do not love your neighbor you do. So I scratch my head and mutter, hmmmm.

My beliefs were shattered in my 20s and have not fully recovered. This is fine with me since I don't want to say: "I have the answer." If I do, I'll stop growing, stop wondering and I'll wither away. I am not going to lose sleep over this. Evereybody is different, so each has to chose what they can accept or believe. It depends what we want to believe. Proof? In the eye of the beholder/believer. The individual has to choose or not.

For what it's worth,


#198772 - 01/09/08 03:37 PM Re: Struggling as well [Re: froggy12]
dogman Offline
New Here

Registered: 12/20/07
Posts: 12
I disagree. I think that truth is attainable. As a matter of fact, it seems to me that lies are what have to be made up. While the truth just is.I too struggled with my faith for a very long time. And still do at times. But I think telling yourself that you will quit growing if you find the truth is very self defeating. For instance, I've been struggling with these memories for over thirty years, mostly because I didn't want them to be true. I always thought if I just refuse to admit it it won't be true. I never actually told myself that, because I would have realized how stupid that sounds if I had, but that is how I was dealing. Don't admit it and it won't be true. Well obviously, that doesn't work. As far as my faith goes I was doing something quite similar. I think probably because I became so promiscuos and I felt a lot of shame over that. But one day when I was particularly down I went for a walk in the park. I have always talked to God. But I was feeling that He wasn't listening, Mainly because I wasn't getting what I wanted. So I decided to fire him. I got all ready ( it was cold and dreary out) and I went out there and I delivered this long almost prepared speech in my mind tlling God how he wasn't real and I had no reason to believe in Him etc. At the end of my big dramatic( for me at least) presentation, I stopped thinking. I couldn't think of anything else to say, and I experienced a silence and a loneliness in my mind that I wouldn't wish on the perpetrators of 9-11! And then I heard a still small voice that was me but not me, It said " If you don't believe in me then Why are you talking to me?" Well I never really managed unbelief. And I hope I never do.

#198932 - 01/10/08 08:42 PM Re: Struggling as well [Re: mogigo]
Lazarus Offline

Registered: 07/01/07
Posts: 851
Loc: Below the radar, USA
Originally Posted By: mogigo
"What question would I need to have answered before I could believe again"?

For me it would have to be something along the lines of this;

"Why is God so powerless against evil?"

I agree that free will is the cornerstone of our existance, and we would be nothing but robots without it. Instead of being able to choose between 'good' (i.e. not harmful) things, why does the choice to kill, maime, rape, torture, abuse, violate, defile, destroy, etc. etc. etc. even exist? If Lucifer is the root of all evil, but God is the one who is all-powerful, why didn't God destroy Lucifer?

If we are just one big experiment that God is observing, and the main elements of that experiment is whether good will prevail over evil, God himself must not know which is preferrable. Otherwise, this existance of ours is just a cruel, sadistic diversion for an omnipotent God, like cockfighting on a huge scale.

That is why I do not believe in God, at least not in a biblical sense.

Respectfully submitted,


P.S. No, I did not take my nickname from the Lazarus of the Gospels of John and Mark. My Lazarus was a science fiction character created by R.H. Hienlien.

"That which does not kill us, surely makes us stonger." - Neitsche

#199452 - 01/14/08 06:39 PM Re: Struggling as well [Re: Lazarus]
weapher Offline

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 60
Loc: Oregon
WOW...the really big cockfight thing is pretty amazing. I think I will process that one for awhile \:\)

I really appreciate the diverse views of this forum...

Keep thinking


Facing the struggle makes you strong.

#203470 - 02/04/08 10:43 AM Re: Struggling as well [Re: mogigo]
kiwi64 Offline

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 11
Loc: Georgia, USA

I don't think there is a one answer fits all for this question. Only you will know what it would take, because you were the one that had to live through the abuse and you created your own value system and protections to survive.

I can tell you, that for me it will only be when I feel I can trust God again. That's not the best answer, but it is the honest answer. That is a process that I am going through right now, some 28 years after the abuse, but it does cause me to question a whole lot of things I was taught as a child. I think its health, because we all grow from selfdiscovery.

The one thing that I do believe is that in death, God will forgive us for our sins if we ask for it, and he will show us his perfect love, but until then, and sometimes I wish it would come soon and quick, I will have to relearn trust, in particular for the one who we are told we should always trust.

Hope this helps.

"the only limit to what can be achieved is our own imagination" Albert Eienstien

#203498 - 02/04/08 03:36 PM Re: Struggling as well [Re: kiwi64]
Freedom49 Offline

Registered: 12/31/07
Posts: 2724
Loc: Washington State
The answer I came up with to that question was:
Does he care about me? I know that is selfish. The thing is God turned me loose so to speak and said here is your life, Here I am, this is what you should do, now lets see if you will do it.
It is between me and him. I cannot answer for the rest of the world and he is not asking me to. He wants to know what choices I choose to make and if they are right. If I choose well, good will come of it and I can ask for help from him. If I choose badly, my choice will have consequences. To me and to others around me. I can return to him and ask for assistance in repairing the bad choices and he will help. Or I can live with the consequences.
Again the problem here is God is VERY personal. He insists on being dealt with on a personal level. Me and Him. Once I understood that things began to happen.
For instance, if you do not really want to come into contact with God, keep your questions and discussions general. You won't get any answers of any consequence but you won't have to actually deal with God himself which can be awkward. The most dangerous thing you can do to a comfy existance is to say God if your real, show me in a way that I will understand and can accept. For I have found that a) he does exist. and b) he actually does love me and want to interact with me and my life and c) he has very strong ideas about how I should behave. This I found to be both wonderful and upsetting.

He is a person, and he likes to be asked to participate in my life.



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