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#19873 - 07/23/05 09:18 PM Young people and poetry
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
I am starting this thread because I wanted to respond to a remark that Jasper made earlier today in the thread about teens prosecuting their abusers.

Jasper, what I wanted to talk about is this comment:

Quote:
Should they be encouraged to write poetry? Or should they be encouraged to take their perp to court?
I understand you are being rhetorical and stressing the need to end the "careers" of perps. I of course agree with that. But I think the remark as it stands is unfortunate, and I want to say why. I also think that maybe this is an opportunity to talk about why we see so many of the young guys getting into poetry on the DB. I don't think this is "off topic", as it speaks to the question of understanding young survivors.

Poetry is an art form that allows for the unlimited soaring and wandering of the human spirit, and throughout history it has been an outlet for expression of emotions and feelings by people in a state of deep personal anguish in all sorts of ways. That is why we see such a high percentage of the boys here showing an interest in poetry. Boys who hit upon the idea of searching out a place like MS - instead of sitting in front of Playstations and the TV endlessly, for example - are probably more curious and creative anyway, and their troubles and confusion have stirred them to seek an expressive outlet for asking important questions and giving voice to their feelings.

It doesn't surprise me to see boys interested in poetry in the first place. There is a common prejudice according to which boys hate poetry, but the truth is that boys need the approval of their peers. Boys in school will routinely moan about poetry because of course only sissies read or like that stuff, but then at home the thoughtful ones will eat it up. In my poetry classes here in Germany (older students of course), the guys outnumber the girls at least 3 to 1 every time.

Anytime a boy seeks such a productive and creative outlet like this I think it should be encouraged and nurtured as a way of coming to terms with things and as an element in his recovery. We see different interests of course: Kevin's pensive reflections on his abuse history and the yearning for help and understanding, Charlie's efforts to deal with what it means to be an abused kid right now, and Nyjah's spontaneous and defiant rap-style pieces.

All are different, all are posing their own individual questions, and all of them are addressed to us. I suppose one could say that of all the poetry on the DB, but perhaps we should bear in mind that if you come to this site as a teenager, it isn't exactly easy to relate to adults in the first place, seeing that adults were the ones who hurt you. The hurt and shame aren't tempered by years or decades of other experiences - they are right here and right now. I am not saying that their hurt is greater than ours; I am just saying it is different, and my point is that poetry is a cool way of expressing exactly how you feel when you can't find the words in just a regular prose post.

In any case, and as dwf comments, we have to ask what is most important to a young survivor: his own recovery or punishment of his perp? Of course we all want to see perps punished, but as John (Sinking) shows in his PM to Jasper on that same thread, it isn't necessarily an easy task. Legal litigation is hell on earth in any case, so how much greater in this kind of case.....?

I would like to look at another aspect of this. Suppose I am 15, abused for 5-6 years earlier in my life, mixed up, ashamed, desperately unhappy, unable to live any kind of normal life because of the flashbacks and nightmares, feeling guilty, worthless, unclean, unloveable, and so on. I identify my perp and prosecute. Assuming that I get through the trial without further damage, and assuming that my perp is found guity and goes to jail right away (i.e. he doesn't endlessly appeal and remain out on bail), will that solve all the other issues that prevent me from recovering my life? Of course not.

Jasper, I know you are talking about saving future victims, and with that sentiment I am in 100% agreement. But the comparison with poetry is a kind of apples and oranges problem. Encouraging the boys to explore their feelings by tapping into a creativity that is uniquely theirs is about something else entirely - the recovery of the young survivors we already have.

Take care bro,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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#19874 - 07/23/05 09:50 PM Re: Young people and poetry
desvelar Offline
Member

Registered: 06/13/05
Posts: 55
Loc: The Wired
Here is two poems of mine:

Writer

The open notebook stares back at me,
The empty canvas for my mind,
documenting the dreams inside my head.
Will my words even matter when I'm gone,
do they matter now?
To me it is my existence - a pitiful attempt
To make some kind of difference
In the inner reaching
Deep in someone's soul.
But is that for real,
Or just a fabrication,
Something we wish were real
Instead of just being organisms
Wandering in these hollowed out cases.
That is not my decision.
Just give me the clouds
And the stars and the earth
And place me among the dreamers in the sky


Remember me


Remember me not as I was
but how I could have been had I lived longer.

Remember me not for what I said
but for what I did and who I helped.

Remember me not for what I looked like
but how I tried to create beauty in others who knew me.

Remember me not for what I wrote
but for how it made you feel on the inside.

Remember me not for what I created
but for how those creations changed things slightly.

Remember me not for what I did right
but what I did wrong to prove that everyone is human.

Remember me not for what I company I kept
but for what that company has done in my stead.

Remember me not as the model child
but as the normal boy who hated being told he was so.

Remember me not for what I never did
but by what I tried to do.

Remember me kindly is all I ask
to not be forgotten was my greatest goal.


So Yeah tell me what you think. Also yea I like what you said alot. Poetry does help amongst other things.


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#19876 - 07/24/05 12:40 AM Re: Young people and poetry
Soccer Kid Offline
Member

Registered: 10/22/04
Posts: 273
Loc: Missouri


_________________________
~Zach~
Deviant of Many Talents

"Reality is just an illusion."

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#19877 - 07/24/05 01:33 AM Re: Young people and poetry
demonboi Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 228
Loc: East Coast
....what did that have to do with poetry?

It's cool cos there is no wrong way of writing it. You can say whatever and use metaphors and stuff. Make it have so many emotions. I love it.

_________________________
Every corner, every city
There's a place where life's a little easy
Little Hennessy, laid back and cool
Every hour, cause it's all good
Leave all the stress from the world outside
Every wrong done will be alright
Nothin but peace, love
And street passion, every ghetto needs a thug mansion

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#19878 - 07/24/05 02:12 AM Re: Young people and poetry
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
I write poetry, but most of it was done when I was age 12 or so, and no, some of it does not rhyme.

It cannot rhyme, because relating to hurt, it cannot rhyme, but it is still what I felt, but does poetry really have to rhyme?

No it doesnt, because you are expressing emotions, and emotions do not rhyme and to rhyme my poetry would take away the true feeling of what I meant.

I have an online journal, and my poems are on there, and a friend called gaelle, she publishes them on a web page, and thats cool.

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19880 - 07/24/05 03:27 AM Re: Young people and poetry
demonboi Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 228
Loc: East Coast
Yeah, all my rhymes are just done. I don't go back and fix them, just seems fake to me. But thats just my opinnion. Just like my cousin doesnt go back and edit any of her stories. She wants it to be in the moment stuff, not anything she has to think too hard about.

Sometimes, if you want a poem to be a certain way I can see editing it. I just don't like to...thats just me.

Hey Kev, I've never battle before. I just write'em. Seems easier.

_________________________
Every corner, every city
There's a place where life's a little easy
Little Hennessy, laid back and cool
Every hour, cause it's all good
Leave all the stress from the world outside
Every wrong done will be alright
Nothin but peace, love
And street passion, every ghetto needs a thug mansion

Top
#19882 - 07/25/05 01:24 AM Re: Young people and poetry
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kev and all, I just write poetry, it comes out and I never edit it, but that is just me.

I dont edit it, because it does not so much need to rhyme because it is just emotions, and how can I change that?

Gaelle posts my poems with the pictures on the web, and they look so totally different, but somehow I have to look so many times to see the depth in how shes puts it across.

At least they are now published on the web for others to make comment.

If I write poetry in word, and get it to rhyme, it is not me, I just dont know why!

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

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#19883 - 07/25/05 01:35 AM Re: Young people and poetry
demonboi Offline
Member

Registered: 05/14/05
Posts: 228
Loc: East Coast
Dude, I was thinking about the dead poet thing. What if you wrote stuff, like mis-spelled everything and they published it! Ah man, that would be embarassing.

_________________________
Every corner, every city
There's a place where life's a little easy
Little Hennessy, laid back and cool
Every hour, cause it's all good
Leave all the stress from the world outside
Every wrong done will be alright
Nothin but peace, love
And street passion, every ghetto needs a thug mansion

Top
#19885 - 07/25/05 02:49 AM Re: Young people and poetry
reality2k4 Offline
Member
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Kev, poems written from events do not rhyme, they cannot, they can be re-written by others who can perceive the poem.

They are sometimes just life events, and they cannot be changed, they cannot be modified, but it is upto the reader to encompass the feeling in what they read.

Poetry that is not based on fantasy, but rather on real-life is only a reflection of real life, and that cannot be changed by rhyme.

It is like beefing up a story, that was initially true, but was turned into something more than the truth.

Truth always conquers in the World, or so I hope,

ste

_________________________
Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

Top
#19886 - 07/29/05 07:29 PM Re: Young people and poetry
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus
MaleSurvivor

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA
Desvelar,

Sorry I didn't come back at you sooner - I was a bit overwhelmed by recent events here.

First, would you want to post your poems also in the poetry forum? They are very good indeed.

Second, and following up on something Kevin said about the Iliad. Have you read it? It is a magnificent masterpiece of Western literature, and here are a few passages you might like. I cite them by the Book number and line. The Iliad and Odyssey each have 24 books or chapters, and within these the lines are numbered.

II.291:
In truth, it is a hard thing to be grieved with desire for going.

III.108-10:
Always it is, that the hearts in the younger men are frivolous,
But when an elder man is among them, he looks behind them
And in front, so that all comes out far better for both sides.

XII.45-47:
And in spite of this the proud heart feels not terror,
Nor turns to run, and it is his own courage that kills him.

XII.410:
Come on with us then, this work is better if many do it.

XVII.32
Once a thing has been done, the fool ses it.

And here is one for all of us:

XII.176:
It were too much toil for me, as if I were a god, to tell all this.

Take care,
Larry

_________________________
Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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