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#168115 - 07/21/07 12:08 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Stefan012]
ttoon Offline

Registered: 06/20/07
Posts: 977

I think we were set up.

The simple truth is that historically it has just been a blink of an eye that society has been willing to accept that boys can be victims. That men can be victimized.

Men are men and little boys are merely little men. The prize is given to the one who can walk when he is not detach, discourage and dismiss what we feel in favor of a ridiculous notion that there is strength somehow in how much we can endure. Our heroes are portrayed as more than human, larger than life...but in the process trade away their humanity.

Trying to live up to that...or, inside of that...has made us vulnerable. To deny so much, for so long, to so many...look at the price we pay.


checkin out for a few weeks... whistle

#168125 - 07/21/07 02:06 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: ttoon]
WalkingSouth Offline

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16270
Loc: Waldport, Oregon

The following post is by John the MS member, not by John the moderator.

You asked the question in your original post

don't some kids say no? and run away?

Yes, some kids do, but most kids don't even know they have options and as Larry says, if they don't know they have the options the options don't exist. I said no. I knew that option was available to me. I couldn't run away because I was under his complete control. When I told him no he gave me 3 choices,

1. I could submit to his perverted desires.
2. I could name another child to be victimized in my place.
3. I could be killed.

Some choice, huh? Run away? Not possible. Little kids don't have the choices you seem to think they do. Maybe you did, but many of the rest of us had absolutely none.

I made my decision from the three choices he offered me. I named my brother to be victimized in my place and he left me alone. Was it a good choice? No, but at the time it seemed like the best of the three. I learned years later that my brother had been cruelly raped by the sicko. He's also a member here, and no, he wasn't offered the choice of saying no either.

One of our members was the victim of a man who murdered and ate his victims. How he managed to escape that fate I have no idea, but the bottom line, Jarrad, is that most if not all of us were helpless in the situation.

Those are the facts of the matter.


"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy Shit! What a ride!'" ~Hunter S. Thompson

#168126 - 07/21/07 02:21 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: WalkingSouth]
VN Offline

Registered: 06/03/05
Posts: 723
My abuse started with my parents. Both my parents. From as young age as I can remember. A 3 or 4 year old being abused by the adults they are suppose to most be able to trust, to me, that is helpless. And to grow up with it is to be learned in helplessness. And the other, outside person who abuse me as teenager, he is now in prison for murdering 3 street boys, taking 'trophies' of them and eating them to make them 'part of him'. I was teenager, I was near to 6 feet tall then, and I was still helpless. Because he was bigger, he was stronger, and he was just insane. And I am still amazed that I escape him someways intact.

I have made some stupid choices in my life. But in the abuse situations, yes, I was helpless, and I will not keep taking on guilt for something I could not prevent.


#168138 - 07/21/07 03:41 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
deck Offline

Registered: 08/19/06
Posts: 109
Loc: Indiana
Hey Jarrad!

First and foremost, I want to reiterate what TJ Jeff said: you did not ask the wrong question. This is a place where we're all coming to try to sort out difficult and confusing situations from our childhood. It IS an emotional question but not a worng question.

It would seem that most abusers have an ability to find children who they can isolate and/or who already feel isolated. In a lot of ways, the child does not understand what is happening. He is coerced either physically, mentally, emotionally or some combination of these. When the molestation occurs the child is isolated and coerced.

After the molestation, the boy is often intimidated into keeping silent. I think that there is a societal notion that males cannot be raped/molested. That only way that a male would have sex with another male is if it were completely and totally consentual. The abuser/attacker can use this in a variety of ways:

1.) You consented. You had to have "wanted" the experience or you, as a male, would have stopped it.
2.) You will not be believed. I think this comes from the idea that the child is convinced that no one believes that the abuser would "consent" to have sex with another male.
3.) You will be believed. The abuser convinces the boy that the he, the abuser, their "relationship" and their families will be adversely effected.
4.) You will be believed. The abuser convinces the boy that he (the abuser) is willing to kill or harm those close to the child to keep this secret.
5.) Combinations of the above.

I guess what I'm trying to say is: what we have in common is that we were all vulnerable in some fashion before, during and after the attack(s). I don't think this makes us flawed-maybe just unlucky.

A friend of mine wrote a blog once about her father. One of the things that she mentioned was that, when she was a girl, a strange man tried to get her into his car. She said that she froze. Her father appeared out of nowhere and he chased the guy off. He had come home early from work. She was vulnerable for just moment- I remember her commenting how lucky and thankful she was that her father was there.

I don't know if this answers your question Jarrad. I do hope that you continue asking them. Honestly, I left out details about my personal experiences because I thought it might make my response sound defensive and emotional. But I have thought a great deal about myself and my experiences while writing this reply. Like I said it's an emotional question.

Take care

#168157 - 07/21/07 05:02 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: roadrunner]
ak Offline

Registered: 01/10/04
Posts: 1491
I do not think that all children are helpless, although of course, until certain age, they are smaller then an adult. I think, it is been said that isolation is a good commen 'link' of those of us who been abused. I know I was isolated. I was 11 years old and 1000km away from my family, living in a dormitory room. I had been raised to respect people older then me and to always obey. So I guess that is what make me such a good victim.


#168171 - 07/21/07 06:01 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: ak]
melliferal Offline

Registered: 11/03/05
Posts: 1159
Some of us were helpless, and some of us were not.

Children cannot consent; they can only comply.

Oprah's resources for male survivors

#168175 - 07/21/07 06:23 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: melliferal]
Jarrad Offline

Registered: 10/27/06
Posts: 1071
Loc: arizona
ugh this totally turned into a pissing match hashing out shitty abuse scenerios. not the point of the question.

thanks mel. that finally answered it.

#168197 - 07/21/07 07:46 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
shadowkid Offline
WARNING from ModTeam, September 2013: user "Shadowkid" was exposed as a hoaxer. His entire online persona and stories of sexual abuse were fiction. We encourage you not to become emotionally concerned by anything you see in any of his posts. Thank you

Registered: 11/18/05
Posts: 2437
who pissed on who dude? it was a valid question ,that was worded very badly.was i helpless?no i chose to fight. so to answer the question no i wasn't helpless just fucking stupid.if i fought does that mean i wasnt helpless that i didnt just allow it? cause all it got me was beat half to death and fucked anyway. also would not being helpless mean i had to win? is the only one considered not having allowed it to happen the 11 year old that whipped ass on a 26 year 250 lb man?

its not hard to fall
when you float like a cannonball - damien rice

#168198 - 07/21/07 07:49 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
Alexander Offline

Registered: 10/17/06
Posts: 223
Loc: The Netherlands
Not to attack you Jarrad, but if you ask such a question, these kind of answers is what you can expect.
If you don't want certain answers, don't ask the question.

I understand your question... but if the answer would be yes we could have run away or told someone to stop it from continuing... That would be as if we weren't smart enough cause we didnt stop it or something?
I don't think that is the right way to look at what happened to us.


Come on, oh my star is fading
And I see no chance of release
And I know I'm dead on the surface
But I am screaming underneath

#168212 - 07/21/07 09:11 PM Re: were we helpless? [Re: Jarrad]
Cidnie Offline

Registered: 07/09/07
Posts: 113
Loc: SFC, CA
In the case of my abuser, he had gone through the necessary steps to ensure that any ounce of defiance and fight in me were well gone. It started with psychological abuse; "I'm going to kill this dog, and you're going to watch. If you tell anyone, I'll kill you too." then physical; "I'm going to break your fingers, I'm going to burn your skin. If you tell anyone, they won't believe you." and then the rape; "Every part of your body is mine and I'll do with it what I want. If you tell anyone they'll think you're a freak." It was complete and methodical subjugation. For every escape my mind came up with he refuted before I could even consider it. 'What if I tell his parents..?' but he had already told me 'My parents love me. You're just adopted, who do you think they'll believe?' So on and so forth.
I can look back now and clearly see that there were ways I could have escaped, but when you're in the middle of it it's hard to see those small windows.

There is nothing natural about maturity in the physically immature. Maturity comes with wisdom, and wisdom comes with pain. Those of us with the greatest minds have endured the greatest torments.

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