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#164026 - 06/29/07 12:32 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: pain4ever]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA

I have that problem too. I like to line up my ducks in order and then start shooting. I make lists of points and work on them; I journal and then analyze my journal. And so on.

And I ask the same question you do. At one point I also wondered how any kid who has done the things that I had to do - and in the church itself - could ever be loved or wanted by God. But now I see that I was innocent - I was being manipulated and controlled. I didn't know I had a choice, so for me those choices didn't exist.

The real problem now is one of connecting with God. I don't feel there is a barrier between me and God; I feel there's a terrible void.

The problem for guys who are rational and analytical, Daniel, is that we are assuming that this kind of thinking will provide the solutions we need. I wonder if that's really true, or at least that won't take us all the way with CSA issues. There is so much about CSA that's entirely emotional, just blind hot feelings. And where is the sense in CSA, after all; what possesses an abuser to think it makes sense to seek sex from a firghtened defenseless child?

Ultimately our recovery does require faith of some kind. At least faith in ourselves, a willingness to take risks that seem to fly in the face of everything we think we know. And perhaps faith in something beyond that. Do we call it the indomitable human spirit that we all share? Do we call it God? Does it matter? If there is a benevolent Creator "out there" do we need him? For what, if it turns out he won't or can't protect children?

I don't have the answers to all these questions and in any case they get controversial. These are just my thoughts, and all I can say further is that these things trouble me and I wish I could connect to whatever source it is that could help me.

Much love,

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

#164033 - 06/29/07 01:05 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: pain4ever]
froggy12 Offline

Registered: 11/12/06
Posts: 527
Loc: Marlboro, MA 01752
Who says we are not supposed to question anything? And that includes God. Blind faith is nice but I'm a cynic. Science is wonderful and like a god, has given us atomic weapons, lethal poisons, medicines that work and do not. Life can be easier or not, thanks to science. But where in hell do politicians comes from? They can be viler than any clergy, give sleaze a new interpretation, and make Attila The Hun seem like a gentlemman.

It's all in the perspective of "what is?"



#164234 - 06/30/07 10:51 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: froggy12]
WalkingSouth Offline

Registered: 08/30/05
Posts: 16269
Heck, I'm a believer in God, but I never started growing and healing in my life till I got angry at God, I can't say he provided me all the answers to my anger, but through my anger I did find a sense of peace in it all that allows me to let all the anger, recrimination, etc. go.

That's my journey, and I don't really know what questions or answers will come my way in the future. My journey takes me one day, one step, one growth experience at at time. I don't expect anyone else to have the same journey I do, but for me I just decided to let God see to the greater things of the universe.

I believe there will come a time when the answers to my great questions in life will be answered. Till that time it's still one day at a time.

Lots of love,


"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well preserved body, but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting 'Holy Shit! What a ride!'" ~Hunter S. Thompson

#164580 - 07/03/07 09:00 AM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: WalkingSouth]
pain4ever Offline

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
There is only one question I want answered...Why was I treated like I was without protection or help from a benevolent omnipresent God I worshipped?

I know you all cant answer it...its pointless really.

I now have faith in myself...which was instilled by therapy. Thats who I heal for...and more then that I heal for my daughter.

Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

#164585 - 07/03/07 11:03 AM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: pain4ever]
MarkK Offline

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2652
Loc: Denver, CO
wouldn't be called "faith" if it was easy, or provable.

assurance of things hoped for
conviction of things not seen

if i had the answers, i'd have no need for the faith.


Number of WoR's attended: 3
Last attended: 2011

#164592 - 07/03/07 12:35 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: MarkK]
FormerTexan Offline

Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12024
Loc: Denver, CO
Time for me to go out on a limb...

I hear plenty of anger on this thread, and it's understandable anger. What I don't understand is the faith-bashing. Fairy tale? I don't think so. Science proven the bible wrong? Actually, I've heard quite the opposite. You wanna vent, I'll listen. I will go to the ends of the earth to give someone an ear over heart-felt anger, even towards God. Even I can stake my claim over such matters since my third perp was a church counselor. We're here for each other, and I want to be here for people. But faith-bashing is hard to not take personal, folks.

The first person who ever gave a crud about worthless me was someone who wanted to pray with me when I was 13. He was the bus driver in 7th grade and he gave me some hope in an otherwise hopeless life. Up to that point, I was nothing to everyone.

Edited by FormerTexan (07/03/07 12:50 PM)
Money talks, but all it tells me is goodbye.

If I could meet myself as a boy...

#164596 - 07/03/07 01:09 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: FormerTexan]
pain4ever Offline

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032

I have no HATE for God...just tons of questions and am having problems finding the faith that i lost years ago. I am trying to get other takes on this. I am not trying to attack anyone or God, or anyones faith, I simply want to understand how people can have faith in God after what happened to us all.

My issues are two fold as I am gay. I beleive that God made me the way I am and if God is infailable then how could he say what I am is wrong?

I know....opening big sensitive issues here...but isnt that what the forum for spirituality is for? Discussing our spirtuality, or in my case the lack there of.

Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

#164600 - 07/03/07 01:26 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: pain4ever]
FormerTexan Offline

Registered: 09/12/04
Posts: 12024
Loc: Denver, CO

"I simply want to understand how people can have faith in God after what happened to us all."

And I totally understand that goal. It's the potshots I was hearing that I didn't care for, and I refered to them in my above post. Legitimate questions I can understand. But bashing has no place here. I don't make posts insulting atheists or their beliefs, even though I can't fathom how they think.

The way I see it, God is not gonna stand in the way of someone making a choice in life, even if it hurts me in some way. If God made my choices for me, I would be a robot. I would have no freewill. I have made stupid choices in life that I thought were the right thing to do. God never stood in my way. He also didn't stand in my way when I said something that hurt someone. Would I regret that later - sure. But the damage was done, I said something hurtful. All I can do is try to make it right later. God didn't stop me from hurting someone anymore than He would stop me from helping someone. It's not God's place to appear in a vision, stand in my way of doing something and say "NO."

That being said, he won't stop a perp from making a hurtful choice either, as far as I know. I could be running short on that rationale, but it's hard to see any other way, at this time.

Edited by FormerTexan (07/03/07 01:31 PM)
Money talks, but all it tells me is goodbye.

If I could meet myself as a boy...

#164602 - 07/03/07 01:38 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: FormerTexan]
pain4ever Offline

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
FT...what about Psalms 91???

2 I will say of the LORD, "He is my refuge and my fortress,
my God, in whom I trust."

3 Surely he will save you from the fowler's snare
and from the deadly pestilence.

4 He will cover you with his feathers,
and under his wings you will find refuge;
his faithfulness will be your shield and rampart.

5 You will not fear the terror of night,
nor the arrow that flies by day,

6 nor the pestilence that stalks in the darkness,
nor the plague that destroys at midday.

7 A thousand may fall at your side,
ten thousand at your right hand,
but it will not come near you.

8 You will only observe with your eyes
and see the punishment of the wicked.

9 If you make the Most High your dwellingó
even the LORD, who is my refuge-

10 then no harm will befall you,
no disaster will come near your tent.

11 For he will command his angels concerning you
to guard you in all your ways;

12 they will lift you up in their hands,
so that you will not strike your foot against a stone.

13 You will tread upon the lion and the cobra;
you will trample the great lion and the serpent.

14 "Because he loves me," says the LORD, "I will rescue him;
I will protect him, for he acknowledges my name.

15 He will call upon me, and I will answer him;
I will be with him in trouble,
I will deliver him and honor him.

I called on him...time and time again...yet continued.

Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

#164603 - 07/03/07 01:42 PM Re: Thing thats tough for me... [Re: pain4ever]
pain4ever Offline

Registered: 04/05/01
Posts: 1032
Psalm 18 1-3

1 I love you, O LORD, my strength.
2 The LORD is my rock, my fortress and my deliverer;
my God is my rock, in whom I take refuge.
He is my shield and the horn [a] of my salvation, my stronghold.

3 I call to the LORD, who is worthy of praise,
and I am saved from my enemies.

Psalm 121:7-8
121:7 The LORD shall preserve thee from all evil: he shall preserve thy soul.
121:8 The LORD shall preserve thy going out and thy coming in from this time forth, and even for evermore.

I can keep many verses on how he is to protect us and will protect us...yet even as faithful as I was...I was not protected...just like so many here!

Peace and Tranquility all depends on your frame of reference.

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