Newest Members
cactus8, Neil Benesh, blazzeee, mmm coffee, Calibre09
13530 Registered Users
Today's Birthdays
Asmodeus (34), comeath3 (78), Poo (53), Roy (56), Skeeter (58), tazrad (46), Treehugger75 (42), waterworld (56)
Who's Online
0 registered (), 72 Guests and 4 Spiders online.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Forum Stats
13,530 Registered Members
75 Forums
70,382 Topics
491,509 Posts

Most users ever online: 418 @ 07/02/12 11:29 AM
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >
Topic Options
#15104 - 05/05/03 01:48 PM If you were abused by an adolescent
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
I will be speaking at the NAPN conference in two weeks to about 400 professionals from all over the US, Canada and a few foreign countries who work with adolescent sexual abusers. I want to sensitize them to victimization issues many of these boys have also experienced, as well as help them understand what some of the longer term effects are on boys who grow up to be adult male survivors (or partners of survivors).

If you could tell these professionals about what you went through as a child/adolescent/adult, what they need to know about educating sexually abusive youth about their own victimization, about hope or anything else that you think they should hear, please post here or private mail me.

I'd like to bring in some of your answers in my speech. No names or locations will be used, although if you don't mind some kind of identifying information like "a 47 year old father of three children who was abused by his older teenaged brother", or "a 20 year old girlfriend of a 22 year old who was sexually abused by a female teenaged babysitter", etc., I would use those kind of de>
Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#15105 - 05/05/03 09:02 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
JamesMichael Offline

Registered: 07/24/02
Posts: 134

Thanks for asking.

Your audience should understand how absolutely numb, confused, frightened, and shamed by what we experienced at the hands of our adolescent perpetrators. They should also understand how we hid the shame from others, and ourSelves. (By the way, I AM a forty-seven year old, married, father of three who was abused by his older adolescent brother)! Quite unconsciously, we create for ourselves a whole labyrinth of dimly lit and narrow passageways to spend a parrallel life in. One fantasy begets another. One emotion triggers another. We don't know what's wrong with us until sometime in young adulthood when things go wrong: unemployment, underemployment, compulsive behaviors, fits of rage, over-reacting, and isn't intimacy sex? Who is it that the other is wanting to know inside of me since he was shattered when he was five years old? Healing is a long, mostly lonely, journey toward resurrection of a murdered soul.

Your listeners should be counseled to tread softly, however matter-of-factly, around us. I, for one, will test, and re-test, before I jump into the same boat with anyone trying to help me. I'm not so much afraid that I will be injured by the professional helper as much as I am watchful that s/he will "get it." I want to know that I'm UNDERSTOOD.

I was first sexually abused around age 5 by a young adolescent boy. I was also (and possibly simultaneously) abused by a brother 6 1/2 years older than me. When that abuse ended I was 8 years old and he was 15. As I recently wrote to my parents 'his penis was big and hairy. I was a little boy, so mine was little.' Then, and now, I equated him with all those that were "older." I withdrew deep inside of myself and was horrified then that while I was keeping the "secret" that he was nonetheless ridiculing me with his friends.

Your listeners should know that we survivors, and I as a child victim, did not have the words to "lingusitically encode" what was happening to us. What do you call this that you're doing to me?...that I'm doing to do? I recall going to confession to a priest some years later to try to get some freedom of the burden of shame. I had not confessed it at the time because I didn't know what to say, yet I knew that there was something wrong. I obsessed about the state of my soul and what would happen if I died before I went to confession, or even alive, that I wasn't somehow clean. When I finally went into the confessional box and the priest initiated the proceedings, I collapsed into sobs saying, "I sucked my brothers peenie." The priest couldn't understand me through my sobs. He asked me to repeat myself numerous times to no avail. He finally granted me absolution...probably because it was obvious that I was a mess and evidently sorry for whatever he thought I might have done. Still I spent years feeling that my confession was incomplete and not "valid." I spoke of it again to a priest when I went to a seminary program in college, and he sexually assaulted me. But that's outside the purview of your talk since he obvioulsy wasn't an adolescent.

I did see a psychologist through the school when I was in second grade. I saw him only a few times. I didn't ever tell him about the abuse with my brother. I "knew" it would get out into the neighborhood, and I would be ridiculed; moreover, I knew instinctively that my family would crumble around me. The only thing I remember telling the psychologist was that I felt like I was in an invisible box that I couldn't get out of, and when queried further by him, I replied that it was just big enough for me to move around in.

Your listeners should know that however difficult it is to reach into the invisible box, that we so much want them to find a way to make it go away. We need them to help us find the key. It's very lonely in the invisible box. It was then, and it still is now.

I hope this helps you.

Thank you for helping us.


#15106 - 05/06/03 03:03 AM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
The Dean Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 07/15/02
Posts: 2080
Loc: Milwaukee, WI
Hi Ken,

I was abused by an adolescent--my fellow scout of the same age. But he was forced to let me give him oral sex and then was forced to rape me.

After he sodomized me, he and our perp got into a tussle and I thought our perp Alan, had killed him by choking him. I do not remember this friend from then on, although I know that we attended two years of high school together after that.

He killed himself about 30 years ago now--left a wife and three children.

There is not much more I can tell you. He did not want any part of it--he had been beaten up pretty badly and then raped himself. I can't see him as a perp--we were both victims that night.

I loved him as a special friend. I wish I had more meories of him after the abuse.


If we do not live what we believe, then we will begin to believe what we live.

#15107 - 05/06/03 04:20 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
michaelb Offline

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
i want to share with you because you have given me great support and technical information i was unable to find anywhere.....but i have been so down of late.....i'll put something together in the next couple of days.....OK????? best of luck with your conference presentation......michael

#15108 - 05/06/03 07:32 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
Mike Church Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 01/23/03
Posts: 3439
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Ken I dont know if 19 year old are classified as adolescents but here is what happened to me:
When I was 16 my father arranged to send me to militart college; to make a man out of me. Well it did not turn out that way. As a recruit I was subjected to all the hazing by upper classmen. One night in September when I was running back to my barrarcks I was stopped by an upperclassman with a flashlight. I had to yell out my name and what squadrom I belonged to. He then forced me down on his boot and ordered me to lick it. I refused. He hit me with the butt of his rifle in the middle of my shoulders and said that if I did not do it I would get much worse. Instead of licking it I used my teeth and scraped all the polish off the toe of his boot. Iwas released and ran back to my barracks terrified.

Two nights later he caught me again with two of his buddies. They marched me off to a vacant building and took me to a change room. I was forced to strip and lay face down on a bench. The guys whos boot I had ruined then stuck his boot under my face. While another one held me the third grabbed me by the balls. I was order to again lick the boot and if I did not they would crush my balls. I resisted and the pain became intense till finally i did kiss the boot. However my body reacted and I got an erection. The guy holding told the other guys that I must be a queer and that I was enjoying it. I was held down while each one took turns sodomizing me both anally and orally. They also took pictures with a flash camera.

I was released and told that they would be in touch. I was terrified. Three nights later they left me a note to meet them in the drill hall that nite. I did not go.

About a week later I got a letter with 2 pictures of me sucking them and a note telling me that if I did not agree to meet them they would send these pictures to the commandant and my parents.

I contined to meet them till the following May. Sometimes 4 times a week. Every conceivable method of humiliation was practiced on me. I have to admit that as it got worse I seemed to thrive on it more. I found that I was addicted to the pain and if I showed up drunk and unable to get excited they were more violent.

At the end of the year I picked my best subject and flunked it.

I am still having a great deal of difficulty withe aftermath of this. I have no tolerance of authority and uniforms make me feel sick to my stomach unless it is in a movie, dont know why that is.
I hope this helps



#15109 - 05/12/03 03:20 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
SandyW Offline

Registered: 02/25/03
Posts: 86
Loc: NJ
The perspective of a 30 (I mean 29 again) year old wife of a 35-year-old man who was victimized by his older sister. At the time of the encounters my husband was 13 or 14 and his sister 17 or 18. The mother had left and she was the one in control of the family. She, in fact, had taken control before the mother had left.

Often times I wondered, is he the victim or the aggressor. Sure, society will tell you that “he was the man and therefore in control”, “he enjoyed it”, “he went to her and therefore its his fault”. Popular opinion will say, “such a young kid was lucky to be with an older woman”. Popular opinion won’t tell you how this secret festered for more than 20 years and nearly destroyed his life. Popular opinion won’t disclose the areas of control, manipulation, maturity level, and inappropriate sexualizing of younger siblings.

I looked to the definition of victim: someone or something killed, destroyed, injured, or otherwise harmed by, or suffering from some act condition, agency or circumstance. Within that definition my answer became clear. Was someone or something killed, destroyed, injured, or otherwise harmed or suffering? Yes…my husband’s self-worth was killed, his hope destroyed, his spirit injured, and yes, he continues to suffer.

My husband has been on the path to self-destruction his entire teen and adult life. The greatest disadvantage this has put to him are contrary feelings. He wants his life to be everything his young family life was not. The problem? He does not feel he deserves it. He feels (in his own words) that he is a monster. He has pushed me out of his life with greater force than he pulled me close when our relationship began. The growth of our relationship together has subsequently undone him. There is no way for him to reconcile the desire to have a healthy family with the feeling that he deserves to carry out the horrible legacy of the family in which he grew up. He cannot cope with intimacy on any level. As we grew closer he turned again to binge drinking. The closer we got the more intense his need to escape. Being closer to me meant being honest and more connected to himself. So he needed a stronger escape and he redeveloped his taste for cocaine. For months he would not have sexual relations with me, but he got his release from internet pornography. He has attempted suicide. He would stop at nothing to escape, but he didn’t know from what he was trying to get away. Through very recent revelation, he realized it is himself. He is trapped in the perspective of that scared, unloved and abandoned little boy. Until he is liberated from this his emotional growth is suspended, his life is a mess, his marriage is on the brink, and his children can't bond with him. Meanwhile he goes on to escape the very thing he fears the most...himself.

#15110 - 05/12/03 04:27 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
Wuamei Offline

Registered: 08/19/02
Posts: 2700
Loc: The left turn I should have ta...
I was sexually abused by two teenage babysitters, one when I was 6 or 7, one when I was 8 or 9; also at this time by an aunt in late adolescence.

At first this seems pretty insignificant to me compared to the continuous sexual & emotional incest of my mother, and what my father did to me as an infant, and other abuses I went thru.

But it did contribute to how oversexualized & sexually addicted I became. This in turn resulted
in treating girls & women as sex objects. Also in being sexually promiscuous at a very early age. My first consensual sex was with the sister (my age) of the second abusive babysitter, when I was 8 or 9. Finally this abuse doubtless contributed to the attraction I had as an adolescent toward younger girls. Even sexually touched a couple of non-adolescent girls once, tho I did back off & stop right away. Thank God.

Well hope this helps some Ken.


"I can't stand pain. It hurts me."
--Daffy Duck

#15111 - 05/14/03 05:07 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
michaelb Offline

Registered: 04/21/01
Posts: 211
Loc: cincinnati, ohio
Guess i have put this off as long as i could.....

I was abused by my uncle, i guess i was 2-3 at the time....he was 16.....he was my father's brother who was the golden boy of the family....very good looking, looked like ricky nelson, star athlete, very intelligent....he was the most sought after guy in town by the girls....the abuse started after my grandmother had a stroke....she normally would watch me while my mother went out hunting down my father who was at the bars with his girlfriends.....but because she was unable, i was dumped on my uncle.....i loved him so much because he was the only person that showed me any attention....he'd tickle me and we'd wrestle.....he told me he loved me and i loved him....he told me i could show him that i loved him and i would do anything to show him i loved him.....he unzipped his pants and just made me play with him at first, but then he said if i really loved him i'd kiss him there, i really loved him, so i did it......i proceeded to do whatever he told me to do, i didn't mind, i loved him and i wanted him to love me.....this happened alot......upstairs, in the bandstand in the park, out behind the barn, in the woods.....but it was very baby brother had died of a heart problem during this period and i felt very guilty because i guess i was very jealous of him, he got all of the attention i had previously gotten.....i was in the car with him when he died in my grandmother's parents were pretty bad off so i spent more and more time at my grandmother's house with my uncle.....i think he used mark's death to convince me to do things sometimes, he knew how really alone i was....he did not have to though, because i would have done anything he asked.....this went on for awhile, but one night things got scarey....guess i refused to do things or maybe i was threatening to tell, but i remember him sitting on top of me with his knee in my sternum, i could not breath and it hurt so much (i remembered this a few days after my heart surgery when i coughed and the pain was excruciating, the pain was excruciating back then was like i could feel his knee crushing my sternum all over again).....i guess i gave in, because he did not hurt me anymore then.......

my uncle joined the airforce and we moved uncle was very successful and even after getting out of the service traveled around the world fixing things.....he married a local girl, sue, who i adored.......not much happened for a long time.....but then when i was 10 and spending several weeks with my grandmother, my uncle and sue came to visit on his new motorcycle.....i wanted to go for a ride so my grandmother wanted to know if the blackberries were uncle took me for a ride, but i was battling him on the bike, fighting with the weight shifts.....he had enough and stopped the bike after we were out of town....he was so enraged....his blue eyes blazing, i was so afraid......i ran into the woods.....but he caught me by the right shoulder.....he forced me down.....he is so mad....he pulls down his pants and makes me put it in my mouth, but still he is mad......he forces me down and undos my pants.....he is inside me, it hurts so much, i feel like i'm being ripped just hurts so much.....when it is over, we get back on the bike......i have to clutch to him for survival.....he goes very fast.....when we get back, my aunt and grandmother are beside the road waiting for us, they are very worried because we have been gone for such a long time.....i never understood, in my mind, we had just gone a mile or so out of town and after he had yelled at me we turned right around and came home.....i know i went upstairs until they left and i'd fight with him everytime he tried tickling me after that.....i guess he used the tickling as a way to indoctrinate me my whole life......

my uncle had divorced his first wife, i think she was unable to have kids.....he was at my house and he noticed i was getting a unibrow and he took me into the bathroom to show me how to pluck my eyebrows....he took such pleasure in my pain.....he then grabbed my crotch and said "you miss your old uncle, don't you??????".....i never understood, but it never left my could i miss him????? he was right there.....i got straight a tickets to a reds game and he said he'd take me and i could spend the weekend with him.....i was 15 and so excited......i adored him and loved riding in his red corvette.....after the game, we went to his house.....i told him i was going to take a shower.....he had 3 bathrooms and i locked the bathroom door where i was.....he came into the bathroom,WHY????????? I WAS IN HORROR!!!!!.....such fear......i still do not know what happened, just remember being cold and wet laying on a bathroom floor bleeding.....the next day he took me to meet his new girlfreind...she was about a year older than me...15-16.....she worked in a photo booth.....he eventually married her several months later.....

i have lived for so long, feeling that i must have been abused, how many other 44 year old "virgins" do you know????? but in my mind i had never been exposed to anybody that i though could/would abuse me.....even though i had fantasies at 5 years old of being hercules and forcing my slaves to perform oral sex on me, i just thought that was nature's way of telling me i was uncle was not gay and in my mind he could not have abused me.....i was so unaware that abusing kids has nothing to do with gay/straight it simply is fulfilling their own sick sexual needs.....

i became so terrified of myself when i was 16 and babysat a beautiful little neighbor boy....i loved him and he adored me......i came so close to coercing him to lick and touch my penis....not sure if i did not because i was so afraid of getting caught or if i just loved him so much and did not want to hurt him.....who do you tell you had pedohile thoughts?????? i've lived with this shame for a long time......i have no pedohilia thoughts now, but have lived in fear that they might resurface.....when my nephew was young and would spent the night with me, i would never sleep with fact, most nights i'd just stay up all night when he was at my place.....guess i was afraid of myself.......

i tried committing suicide a few weeks after my final visit with my uncle, taking a bottle of aspirin.....i've tried many times since......

i've lived in such fear of being a pedophile or being gay, though i have no qualms with gay people and certainly no religous beliefs.....i made out with alot of girls, but when things would get too close, i'd flee.....was ok looking and was very buff with a nice hairy chest.....remember girls coming up to me at bars and feeling me up, my chest, sometimes they'd go below the belt.....i liked the attention, but it would freak me out and i'd bolt and sprint home....had alot of nice looking guys come onto me in lockerrrooms, saunas, department stores, etc....and although very flattered, i could not have sex with them either......had a fraternity brother who i wrestled with alot....we came close to having sex a few times, but we'd always back away.....guess i would have had sex with him.....but i think i was in love with him kind of like the way i loved my uncle.....but i was so confused back i am this star athlete and big man on campus having gay thoughts??????

i dated a few girls after graduation, but no sex.....the last girl i dated for a year, but it hurt her really bad that i would not sleep with her......i refused to hurt anymore women, so i just quit dating anybody about 18 years ago......

alot of my memories have been repressed for a long time and i still question their validity....though i had attempted suicide many times, the first time i was ever hospitalized because of it was 1-1-2001......that is when i began trying to understand why i hate myself so much......

i'm sure i've left something out.....if you have any questions, feel free to ask me anything.......michael

#15112 - 05/15/03 02:00 AM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
Thank you, Michael for sharing a powerful and terrible story of abuse and its aftermath. To you and the others who posted their stories in this forum or privately emailed me , I thank you for the courage you showed to let others know of your pain, suffering and efforts to heal.

I am working some of the messages into my speech for Monday. While many of the 300 or so who have registered for the conference are familiar with the victimization histories of the adolescent abusers they work with, and often the details of their victims, I believe most of the professionals do not hear from adult male survivors about what the long term effects and efforts are for those boys who were abused.

When the speech is done and delivered, I will post it here.

Thank you again for sharing.


Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#15113 - 05/15/03 07:25 PM Re: If you were abused by an adolescent
Cement Offline

Registered: 06/05/02
Posts: 740
Loc: Southern California
As much as I want to help others, and educate those in the public and even those in the therapy community, I haven't been able to post to this thread, until now, when it may be too late to be of any help.

This is an odd effect in itself, a continuing insidious procrastination of something I know I can do and would even like to do, but cannot do.

Well, so much for that, I decided to cut and paste some stuff from posts I have made, they are by no menas comprehensive, but I hope it helps...

I was abused by my adolescent sister, who is five years older than I.

In my case, the abused boy (now a man) is still seeking approval from his sister. This is a form of reliving the abuse, in my view.

This kind of abuse is so difficult to understand, I think, because it is non-violent, and occurs among opposite sex members of the same family who are under 18.

I thought I was an equal partner in the abuse. In fact, when she ended it, I didn't want to stop. This is part of the manipulation of abuse.

Society just doesn't view early sexualization of boys by girls as any real problem. This is part of what made it so hard for me to realize that I had been abused.

Even now, I have difficulty expressing how this whole process has been for me. I hear the voices of society, "Well, how did you SUDDENLY realize it was abuse? if it is abuse, you would know right away." and "Every boy should be introduced to sex with a beautiful young girl."

I realized the effect in retrospect, and after years of therapy. I noticed a lot of things: I never stayed with a woman for more than a year; I craved outside attention; I never felt that I was getting what I deserved out of life. These were issues tied in with the abuse, but they are not so obvious that I could see that they were direct effects.

And I had a secret, a shameful hidden secret I couldn't share with anyone. I was an exhibitionist. I showed my naked picture to women, played sex games with women on the internet, saw prostitutes, went to strip clubs for solace; at 12, I ran naked past the secretary of my church! Ten years ago, I was arrested for flashing a woman while I was driving. But still I didn't see what was going on. The same shame I felt about what had happened with my sister, and the incredibly deep feeling of rejection I had because she STOPPED (that is ironic, huh?) was replaying over and over, as I tried to get women to respond, immediately and sexually.

My definitions and feelings of love, attraction and sex are skewed from 'normal.' Again, this area is confusing, even now, because these skewed emotions were taught to me by an attractive member of the opposite sex with whom I already had a love relationship. I learned shame and secrecy right along with it. I learned that sex FEELS GOOD, whether it is between consenting adults or underage family members. I learned all of this before I was physically ready and well before I could have any emotional distance from it. I never told anyone, out of shame and feelings of responsibility. So the experience became my sexuality.

These feelings (which I, perhaps inappropriately, called love or lust) are almost hard-wired into my brain. If I had a 'normal' sexual upbringing, my feelings would have grown naturally.

But I didn't, and they didn't and there they are, like a tree that has bent to grow around a rock or a wall in its path. I might be able to remove the rock, but I cannot go back and change the way the tree grew.

I can help it, though, to stay strong growing in a healthier direction.

For me, the lingering effects of love and lust as taught by abuse are the very tricky parts for my wife and for me. I always hope she can understand that some of the lust 'artifacts' I feel do not affect my love for her or my attraction to her. Like a drug addict or alcoholic, though, I feel them almost every day.

Then of course, there are other, enduring effects - lack of self-worth, underachievement, inability to recognize my own strengths, that sort of thing.

Physical problems include: acute anxiety attacks, severe depression (clinically diagnosed). I abused drugs and alcohol for years.

My treatment has worked - I have gone to weekly talk therapy for almost five years, focused on abuse issues for the last year or so, I have been taking 300 MG of Effexor for almost as long, which has helped tremendously, along with the therapy in reducing the effects of the anxiety and of depression; I use ativan during intense anxiety, taken only when necessary, now usually about once a month.

I journal, I write poetry, I garden and I build things. I play music. These are all very therapeutic for me.

There you go,

And let the darkness fear our light.

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3 >

Moderator:  ModTeam, TJ jeff 

I agree that my access and use of the MaleSurvivor discussion forums and chat room is subject to the terms of this Agreement. AND the sole discretion of MaleSurvivor.
I agree that my use of MaleSurvivor resources are AT-WILL, and that my posting privileges may be terminated at any time, and for any reason by MaleSurvivor.