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#147149 - 03/27/07 01:48 AM Re: I have a question? [Re: halryan]
Elad 12 Offline

Registered: 02/15/05
Posts: 1176
Loc: on the coast

#147256 - 03/27/07 06:05 PM Re: I have a question? [Re: Elad 12]
DeafDavid Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 07/17/06
Posts: 38
Loc: NM
Dale (and all the others that posted here)

Thank you for starting this thread Dale, it has helped me as well, reading about things I also relate to and have questions about. As you know, I too was trained to be used since I was very young and it continued until last year when I was 16. What has bothered me is why I continued to allow it to go on after I was older and knew it was all wrong. As Derdlecar said, I now know I was allowing it not so much for the physical but rather for the emotional intimacy. I did although sometimes enjoy, to a degree, the physical sensations I did receive. I have never felt emotional intimacy in my whole life and I guess I have spent my life trying to get it whatever it took. I have also been wondering if it is possible to be "part-gay" because of a few things that has happened to me lately.

My situation has all changed since I was removed from my home, school, belongings etc etc after it all was brought to light. I now live in a new home, surrounder by new people. At school, I have made a new friend which has me really confused. I guess I have really not had a true friend ever in the past so it is confusing. We are in a class together and it started with me helping him in that class which he has trouble in. Now after quite awhile, he continues our friendship, coming over to my house and including me in several of his activities. The whole thing just seems so normal that I have problems with it. At first I thought that he liked me because I helped him with his homework but he still does even when I no longer need to do that. What confuses me now is why he would like me now I no longer do things for him. I know that makes no sense but I still feel it deep inside. I keep trying to do other things for him so he will remain my friend.

Well I do wonder if I am gay or what because, as Rabbit said, I too process images of men when I turn to fantasy during those personal times. I even wonder if that could be why I am drawn to my new friend, or maybe that is why he is drawn to me?? A while ago, I managed to gather up the courage it took to approach a gay support group here at the campus. I found a couple of guys that were so very willing to chat with me (and that is sometimes hard for others as I am deaf). They took all the time I needed to chat with them. I still don't have an answer if I am 100% gay or what but you know as Derdlecar noticed, the gay men just seemed so much more NOT afraid to be in touch of their feelings and to so openly share with me, I was impressed.

Well I have rambled long enough. I guess the answer to the basic sexual orientation question is not the main thing in my life anyway. Time will sort that out I guess anyway. The bigger issue here I think is how we all learn to relate to other men in our daily lives. I just hope that someday I can learn to be more comfortable in my own skin.


#147267 - 03/27/07 06:55 PM Re: I have a question? [Re: DeafDavid]
philobat Offline

Registered: 01/31/07
Posts: 293
Loc: California
One of the worst side effects of CSA is a common confusion regarding sexual orientation. Although I have found for me, my attraction is more towards men. I have had relationships with both men and women and at various times I was attracted to both.

I have found for me, that deep down inside is this measuring dial that points toward men. That is just for me. And I found that whenever I listen to myself and not the views of anyone else that clarity for me will rise to the surface and the confusion sinks to the bottom and into obscurity.

I know who I am by listening within and not comparing what I hear with the opinions of people, religion, family and anyone else who has not walked at least one mile in my shoes!

Just my $0.02 worth!

btw, being attracted to men does not define who I am as a person- it merely suggests that men give rise to my nether regions- nothing more.

Edited by philobat (03/27/07 06:58 PM)

#147296 - 03/27/07 08:27 PM Re: I have a question? [Re: philobat]
cbfull Offline

Registered: 01/26/07
Posts: 386
Loc: Ohio
I understand where both of you are coming from.

I have a friend now who I was doing stuff for and giving him things because I was sure he was going to reject me as a "goofy gay guy with wierd problems and emotions".

Our friendship has evolved to the point where I am constantly amazed at how genuine his interest in our friendship is. He did finally make a remark about me giving him stuff all the time, and he said, "I don't have anything to give to you." I replied, "I don't want anything." I later confessed to him that a "small" part of it is an insecurity.

I half expected him to be uncomfortable with my insecurity, but just the opposite happened, it made us even better friends. I could feel that our friendship had gotten stronger that day. He came up just to sit with me and didn't really have anything to say. He just wanted to hang out.

I keep finding myself amazed at the fact that the more sincere and genuine I am with him, the more he values my friendship.

So for your situation, DeafDavid, it sounds like you are developing a strong friendship with this person, and I can understand how you are confused as to why he would want your friendship when you feel you have nothing to "give". If your friendship is all he wants, you already are "giving" just by being his friend.


Edited by cbfull (03/28/07 12:02 PM)

Guilt and shame have never done any of us any good at all.

#147339 - 03/28/07 01:57 AM Re: I have a question? [Re: cbfull]
Derdlecar Offline

Registered: 11/08/05
Posts: 1316
Loc: Ogden Utah, USA
I was 10 years old and had no friends. Nobody loved Darrel except for the neighbor kid and the taxi driver and the only reason they loved him was because he had a couple of warm places to put it.

So what did I learn from all this? I learned that I was gay. I wasn't really but it took me years to figure that part out. So here I was, very confused by my sexual orientation or should I say lack of sexual orientation. And all this time, all I really wanted was someone to love me and hold me close and value me, wanting nothing in return.

So here I am now, I still desire and enjoy close friendship with men but leave the sex out of it please; it has a way of making things complicated.

Love ya

If a man would get his life on track, he must first go back to the place where it was derailed.

#147710 - 03/30/07 02:59 AM Re: I have a question? [Re: Derdlecar]
roadrunner Offline
Administrator Emeritus

Registered: 05/02/05
Posts: 22045
Loc: Carlisle, PA

Another one I'm dropping into at a late stage...oh well.

As some of you already know, when I was 13 the abuser managed to trick my best friend Stevie and I into meeting him and going to his house - I was already doing whatever he wanted whenever he said, and Stevie was threatened. Neither of us knew what would follow. That lasted for a year, until the abuse finally ended for both of us, when I was 14 and Stevie was 13. But by then we were devastated boys with no boundaries any longer; our friendship soon took a sexual turn of its own and that continued for two more years.

I didn't realize it at the time, but the effects of this on me were colossal. I figured that I should have been able to stop things or "save" Stevie when we were being abused together, and during our later relationship I dreaded the possibility that I was betraying him. I was a year older, and when he and I got up to no good in the usual boyhood mischief the adventure was usually his idea and then I had to figure out how we would get away with it. But this time I was powerless and I just could not forgive myself. I drifted away from friends, stayed by myself in school, and withdrew from most school activities, all because i feared becoming closely attached to yet another friend whom I would betray or be unable to protect. That continued on into college and adulthood, and I bet I can count on one hand, with a few fingers left over, the number of close friends I ever allowed myself to have.

Since I started to deal with my issues I think one of the most amazing experiences I have had (and there are many) has been regaining - or should I say discovering - the ability to relate fully with another man without fearing betrayal and sexual catastrophe, one way or another. I found out that I can feel intensely about another man as my friend and become very involved with him emotionally, and still maintain good boundaries.

I was finally able to understand that all my fears and dread went straight back to a boy's inability to understand what had really happened those many years ago. We were just two abused, frightened and very confused boys. We had no one to talk to or relate to except each other, we trusted each other, and we had gotten each other through a year of horrific abuse. We needed each other, and yes, we were in love - so we expressed that by doing what we knew.

It was never true that I had betrayed Stevie, and it had never been within my power to protect him. Once I understood that and trusted it to be true, I could reclaim my wholeness as a man - meaning I could begin to relate to other guys as a whole person, without Little Larry putting us on Red Alert every time I had feelings for someone as a friend.

Dale, my guess is that this is what happened to you at the retreat. That is, it wasn't a matter of whether these other men were straight or gay. Rather, in the context of the retreat you could have faith in the fact that they were safe. You could have the feeling that Darrel describes:

Originally Posted By: Derdlecar
All I really wanted was someone to love me and hold me close and value me, wanting nothing in return.

and actually run with it! You could relate to them as all of Dale, not as just part of him, with the rest of you at battle stations.

Does that sound like something to work with? In any case, it's wonderful you had this experience. I hope you can develop it further, in whatever direction is right for you.

Much love,

Nobody living can ever stop me
As I go walking my freedom highway.
Nobody living can make me turn back:
This land was made for you and me.
(Woody Guthrie)

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