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#132061 - 09/09/05 09:56 AM identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
I just don't get it. Sexual confusion.

I like women and think they are beautiful but I no longer want to have sex with them or insert it in them. I don't want to have sex with them. I'd rather play with myself and not let anyone else touch me. I don't feel masculine, I don't think women see me as sexy except my wife. I asked one gf once what she thought about living together without sex for a year to get to know each other and she said she wouldn't want to do it. So much for loving me and wanting to get to know me.

It only seems like men ever really hit on me.
It only seems like I have ever really been hit on by men. Very very few times by women that is and not much. If women find me sexy why don't they hit on me. Do I look damaged. Do I look like a target to these guys?

I like male genitals so what does that make me gay or bi or what? If I said I was gay that would end the confusion but most men I don't find remotley attractive.

I feel like a reject like part of me was taken away. I feel emotionally screwed.

#132062 - 09/09/05 10:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostcowboy Offline

Registered: 11/10/04
Posts: 798
Loc: Rhode Island
First let me welcome you to the site. As we say here, sorry you had the need to find this place, but we are glad you did.
Normally men hit on the women, or men hit on men. Women, wait to be hit on by men, and turn down any guy they don't want. Or women will hit on other women. That's the way it works in general. But when you have been screwed with, things get confusing. Again welcome aboard.
Take care,

"Don't walk in front of me, I may not follow. Don't walk behind me, I may not lead. Just walk beside me and be my friend." - Albert Camus
Pretty much my life as I have posted so far. Triggers!

#132063 - 09/09/05 10:41 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
Dewey2k Offline

Registered: 08/22/05
Posts: 3069

I'm glad you're here, but sorry you had to seek us out. Welcome to MaleSurvivor.

I am gay, so what I say may or may not ring true for you.

To me, labels are over-rated and do more harm than good. You are driven one way or another by feelings you have no control over. If that direction happens to be men, then yes, one label that might be used is 'gay'. If you like both, then you might be 'bi'. However, don't use these labels as straightjackets, no pun intended.

Being gay is not a result of SA. I would ask, however, why you think that you being damaged has marked you or has anything to do with why guys hit on you? People hit on people they find attractive in adult relationships, or that is how it is supposed to work.

Remember too, that men and women operate differently. Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

I don't think you're a reject, and yes, something was taken from you. You are in a good place to begin getting answers to your questions. Know this: you are not alone any more.

#132064 - 09/09/05 07:59 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Originally posted by Dewey2k:

To me, labels are over-rated and do more harm than good. You are driven one way or another by feelings you have no control over. If that direction happens to be men, then yes, one label that might be used is 'gay'. If you like both, then you might be 'bi'. However, don't use these labels as straightjackets, no pun intended.

Being gay is not a result of SA. I would ask, however, why you think that you being damaged has marked you or has anything to do with why guys hit on you? People hit on people they find attractive in adult relationships, or that is how it is supposed to work.

Remember too, that men and women operate differently. Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

I don't think you're a reject, and yes, something was taken from you. You are in a good place to begin getting answers to your questions. Know this: you are not alone any more.
I am being driven more to have sex with men and let them have there way with me (submissive), that is how I feel. I am not keen on the way most men look body wise though. I love the look of women and the way their clothes look on them and all that feminine stuff high heels etc but I don't want to be agressive with them and I don't want to bare the stress of having to perform. If I can't get it up then they don't have sex even if I am crazy about them, the fear of failure sucks. I have no problem getting an erection playiing with myself or if a guy starts playing around with me and my dick. I am more interested in being the one going down on a guy than the other way around. In the past that is all any guys wanted to do go down on me. I have never dated guys and it was more about what the guy wanted than an equal thing.

Being told it is normal and doesn't mean that I am gay, for guys to play with each other and kissing guys on the lips is normal in Europe and that people in North America are too conservative/uptight. That is what I heard for years which didn't help things trying to figure out mys sexuality.

My ideal woman would have a nice penis so I could "see" when she was horny and when I had made her orgasm and she would be very feminine.

When I first started having sex with women at the age of about 20 I had lots of sex with women, I think I may have been doing it to prove that I was normal like everyone else I wasn't gay, who knows.

As far as why I think I look damaged, hmm good question. Because at lease in the past if someone looks and acts like they have lower self esteem then I would think they are more vulnerable, people can see that. But then again that really happened a lot more when i was younger. I guess most (a generalization) guys go after the cute younger guys and that is what I was.

I am very attracted to attention I get from men. I crave sexual attention. I don't get that from women not the same way. The men don't even have to be very good looking but if they have a nice penis that would be nice. I love sexual attention they give me when they say they love my body or hit on me at eg the pool or when I have gone to a Mens Sauna/bath house.

It is too bad in a way that women operate differently then men because if they were more direct that would be great. I want to be the one courted. If I go into a straight chat room on the web I don't get pvt msgs but the women get them all over the place from the guys. If I go to a gay chat room then I get hit on.

I love my wife but I don't want to be the agressive partner in bed, I wonder how many other guys are like that. I need her to perform oraly to get me arroused to her many times. I need to see she really wants me to be aroused and really wants my body. I can't see that she is horny like I can see with my eyes with a guy.

#132065 - 09/09/05 09:06 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
puppy Offline

Registered: 05/28/05
Posts: 129
Loc: earth
i dont have much advice to give on this topic but i think if you really want some time to just get to know your wife without sex, maybe its good to sit downa nd talk seriously about it. does she know you were abused and does she know why you wanted to take a year off? maybe if she understood your emotional needs better, she would be more open to the idea.

and as for girls not hitting on you, they probably do. girls are a lot more subtle than guys in that respect.

also, talk to your therapist about stuff like this. it totally helps.


#132066 - 09/10/05 05:25 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
Ken Singer, LCSW Offline

Registered: 08/24/00
Posts: 5781
Loc: Lyons, CO USA
Regarding the interest/arousal to penises... here is a part of my book (in progress, not done yet).., (**Trigger Warning**)

“If I got an erection, had an orgasm or ejaculated during the abuse with a male, does it mean I’m gay?” This is a common response to sexual abuse. Because the victim’s penis is often stimulated by the abuser through touch, body contact, or exposure to sexually arousing material (pornography) the victim may believe that his erection betrayed him or is somehow an indicator that he is homosexual. While there is no research that confirms sexual abuse causes homosexuality, many victims believe that this experience, particularly if it is the first encounter of a sexual nature, results in becoming gay. Since nearly ten per cent of the population is homosexual or bisexual, there are a number of boys who, regardless of sexual abuse history, would have been “naturally” gay later on.

Sometimes the abuser will use the fear of homosexuality in a boy as a way to get him to go along with the abuse, justify the abuser’s actions, or to blackmail the youth into further sexual acts or prevent him from disclosing. Many abusers I’ve worked with have told their victims that the erection was “proof” the victim “wanted” the sexual contact, or that his erection was “proof” he was really gay. It has also been a blackmail tool to scare the boy into believing that people would know he was gay; as if that is worse than being abused or that the abuser molested the child.

Sometimes the victim becomes fixated on penises. Thoughts of performing oral sex on men or boys become the theme of sexual fantasies for some. For those who are truly homosexual, this is a natural source of arousal. For the male victim of same sex abuse, the penis may have a different meaning in the recurrent fantasies. What we find sexually stimulating can also be termed “erotic”.

If you are heterosexual, the thought of a woman’s body can be quite stimulating. Because our sexual conditioning may involve a focus on body parts, some men become particularly interested or aroused by breasts, or buttocks, or legs. Others become attracted to the vulva or vagina. Likewise, if you are gay, the arousal to a penis or man’s body can be stimulating for you. There is no “right” way on to be attracted.

I worked with a man years ago that was obsessed by legs, feet and women’s shoes. He reported that his mother used to come home from work and ask him to massage her legs and feet. She moaned as he worked her on legs and said things like, “Oh, you’re so good. That feels great, yes, yes!”

He said he remembered often being sexually aroused and during one massage session with her, when he was about 11, he experienced his first orgasm and ejaculation. He later associated sexual response with women’s legs, feet and shoes. The greatest turn on for him during sex was to kiss his partner’s feet and massage her legs. He was also a big consumer of pornographic magazines that cater to those attracted to legs, feet and shoes. He concluded that had he not been eroticized to his mother’s legs and feet as a boy, he would have had a more normal sexual attraction to a woman’s body and not fixated on her legs and feet.

“What if I think about penises a lot? Does that mean I’m gay?” Not necessarily. The man described above associated sexual pleasure with his mother’s (and later his partners’) legs, shoes and feet. If a boy experiences powerful sexual feelings while sucking his abuser’s penis, or having his own penis licked, or touching or being touched on the penis, he may make a similar connection. In addition, as teenagers discovering masturbation, we reinforce the pleasurable feelings with the sight and feel of our own penises. So, with a “normal” (that is, non-abusive) sexual history, we will have a neutral to good association with penises. They make us feel good, powerful, and alleviate boredom.

But when the sexual feelings are forced, unwanted, confusing, even painful, the association with the penis can be contaminated. Some men hate their penis because it “betrayed” them by getting erect in an abusive situation. Because the male abuser, particularly when there are negative feelings towards him, has a penis, some survivors may associate the penis with the hurt, betrayal, humiliation, shame, and guilt from the abuse. Think of the confusion one might feel from having these negative emotions about the abuse or abuser, and trying to feel good about one’s sexuality and penis.

One important consideration is to look at why you desire to act out sexually with other men. If the acts are reenactments of your abuse, it may be because the trauma is still unresolved and the sex is a way of returning to the trauma, perhaps hoping on an unconscious level, that this time you are not the helpless one. It may also be that you have been taught or conditioned that doing this behavior will bring closeness, acceptance or some other emotional need that you may not have in your life at the moment.


Blissfully retired after 35 years treating sexual abuse

#132067 - 09/12/05 06:53 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Originally posted by puppy:
i dont have much advice to give on this topic but i think if you really want some time to just get to know your wife without sex, maybe its good to sit downa nd talk seriously about it. does she know you were abused and does she know why you wanted to take a year off? maybe if she understood your emotional needs better, she would be more open to the idea.

and as for girls not hitting on you, they probably do. girls are a lot more subtle than guys in that respect.

also, talk to your therapist about stuff like this. it totally helps.
Well to straighten things out so to speak it was some years ago, it wasn't my wife I asked to go without sex for a year that I asked it was an ex gf (girlfriend).

I was trying to get back together with the ex girlfriend and talking about the idea of living together without sex for a year and being boyrfriend and girlfriend that went down like a led baloon.

I also had mentioned that I found the idea of going down on a guy interestings and penises interesting. She didn't say anything but it may have grossed her out evrytime I talked about it. Needless to say we didn't get back together and we didn't move in.

The ex girlfriend never knew about my past experience with being guys and I didn't really trust her emotionally with that. I was worried she would use that against me and maybe even tell other people too.

My wife knows about my past experience and she is the first person I ever talked to about it and my abuse. She is my best friend I trust not to hurt me emotionally with stuff that I tell her. We have sex only a few times a year but she of course would like more and she has heard me say on a number of occoasions I feel screwed up sexually and who knows maybe I am bi or maybe I am gay. She takes me as I am and loves me still. She is a true friend indeed!

#132068 - 09/12/05 07:13 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!)
lostone Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 09/09/05
Posts: 14
Originally posted by Ken Singer, LCSW:
Regarding the interest/arousal to penises... here is a part of my book (in progress, not done yet).., (**Trigger Warning**)

“If I got an erection, had an orgasm or ejaculated during the abuse with a male, does it mean I’m gay?” This is a common response to sexual abuse. Because the victim’s penis is often stimulated by the abuser through touch, body contact, or exposure to sexually arousing material (pornography) the victim may believe that his erection betrayed him or is somehow an indicator that he is homosexual.

SNIP SNIP Oroignal article snipped a lot shorter..

That was a long peice to read but very thoughtful.
I do think about myself getting the erection when I was stimulated and I must have wanted it. I do like getting bj's I had to put my mind somewhere else when I think back to it, to not think about it being a guy sucking me off. It was a one way streak mainly. I won't go into the details I don't want to trigger anyone in a bad way, but my first experience having my penis touched was when I was about 8 and it was a drunken adult who wanted to touch it and I was scared. He kissed it what I now know was trying to suck it. My next experience was with a guy friend at school and that was mutual and not abuse. Just a matter of I dare you to take off your clothes No sex no oral or anything, we just touched each others penis, we were just teens. I really liked him and he is the only one I could really trust because the next person who was in my life that I looked up and admired was an adult about 30 years older than me. That is what really screwed me up. Having sexual contact with adults as a kid and a teen. I want to go back to the day when there wasn't a 30 years older adult when I was with my friend and we were both virgins and innocent and nervous about dating girls our bodies etc and just a normal teen.

Yes I admit I have a fixation with penises. If they are so great to suck I want it to be my turn. I feel odd and I don't think it is normal but I am missing in my life the attention I got from men as a young guy and I feel if I let them touch me as an adult I would feel great to be appreciated again and I would be in control to say yes or no to who touches my body.

Still not sure about my sexuality, I am not very interested at all about sex with my wife. I masterbate. Masterbation is something that is pleasing that isn't for anyone else but myself.
Having said that I still feel screwed emotionally because after all that happened to me as a youth I crave the desire to be disired by men, I crave in a screwed up way to be sexually wanted and the one that pleases them. Screwed up I know....

Sometimes I think why did God create such a screwed up thing as sex, that people abuse, beat and hurt people in many ways to have it and yet it is supposed to be a loving and good thing.

#165161 - 07/06/07 11:15 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: lostone]
Buernt Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/06/07
Posts: 5
Just trying to perform is a nightmare. Every moment you spend trying to be something you are not just reminds you there is a whole there. I know this from experience as well. Molestation that involves an adult who tries to get the child to engage in the acts of abuse is different than an adult that just abuses with no thought about the child's mind or soul. Sexual abuse that is like rape is horrible and can easily be hated. Sexual abuse that has all the context of care and attention can move deep into the abused persons soul and corrupt it like cancer.

I recovered from the abuse you've suffered by taking hold of who I am and pursuing a purpose. I am not what my abuser made me. Although I had an emptiness in me that he exploited, I will never find happiness, peace, or fulfillment by using what he taught me and inspired me towards to fill it. I am a man and I am capable of loving my wife. I am not trying to be a man and I am not trying to find out if I can love my wife.

This is the difference from trying to perform and be something and pursuing a goal. To try to be or perform something is to will oneself to do something one is incapable of doing. To pursue a goal, however, is to will oneself to move towards something. One is capable of using their will to hit notes on a keyboard. However, one is not capable of willing oneself to play a classical piano piece. If, however, one wills oneself to hit piano keys in a way to train the mind to recognize notes, the fingers to come under control of the mind, to engage the mind in rythm and timing he will over time be able to play music. By now people can probably see the analogy I am drawing, and a smart person could say, "But will the person love playing the piano?" My answer is another question, why did he want to play in the first place? Did he want to prove something to himself? Did he want to come to understand music by being able to repeat it on an instrument? His interest and love will only be as deep as his reason for pursuing it.

I was totally twisted from the time I was 4 years old. I had no attractions to females at all. The only female I have ever been really attracted to is my wife, and this took time and devotion and learning to let go of my pursuits that stood in the way.

I wanted to find my masculinity in another male. This was my pursuit. It resulted in me being torn apart. The only reason I chose not to be gay was the fact I hated what was done to me and that I wanted a wife and family. When I was a young child, I always saw a family as a beautiful thing. The person who corrupted my soul and got me to embrace it did not steal that love I had in me.

When I looked at my wife, I didn't reflect on what she wasn't. I didn't reflect on the fact I had no response to her. I chose to move. I willed myself to just move internally. When I saw her beauty I just let the little flame burn inside me. I didn't hate it for being pathetic and small. I didn't take a little seedling and mock and despise it in front of a mature tree. I appreciated it. I chose to bless it for what it was and whatever it could be. Slowly, this seed grew into alot more. In fact, I had nonstop erections for my wife and constant interest in her. It is really too bad she wasn't thrilled with it. She was loving towards me but withdrew out of fear that I was insatiable. Ironically, I had trouble orgasming even though I had come to want her and sexually respond to her. She started trying to cool me down. What I think I really needed was just time to go through some rapid growth and find myself. I was stilted. She withdrew from me and in desperation I tried to pursue her more. I was terrified of losing what I gained. In the end, I went back to struggling with desires for male affirmation and lost all interest in her. It was the worst wound I have ever had. It felt like I had almost escaped a trap only to be thrown back in by the one I loved and trusted.

But then, she suddenly decided she needed and wanted me sexually. My decreased supply resulted in an increased demand. This was really, really painful. I was full of doubt. I had relapsed inside so much. I wasn't arroused by her or any women. But I walked that road again. She is completely satisfied sexually now and I am always able to deliver. But inside part of me lingers over a feeling of betrayal and abandoment. I felt abandoned by my parents, the person who raped my body and soul, and my wife. I am working to get past this issue.

Gender identity is a lot more that just genes and brain chemistry. It is also the things we love most and spend our lives pursuing. Unlike you, I found men to be attractive. I was young enough and exposed to a concept of masculinity that glorified male appearance instead of female. So you at least have that going for you. If you love your wife, engage her. When something in your mind screams "NO!". Look at it. Doubt it. Question it's right to tell you what you can and can't do. When you hold your wife and you feel something telling you how inadequate the whole experience is, how empty it all is refuse it. Take hold of the simple, small, pathetic, weak, and love it for being there. If you water even small seeds, you will be amazed at what you can make grow. And don't be intimidated by larger trees trying to hog all the sun light.

#171056 - 08/05/07 10:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Buernt]
hayden502 Offline
New Here

Registered: 07/28/07
Posts: 6
Loc: Canada
** Advance Warning: Material may offend some

Hey Lostone,
I can sort of relate with you about the men hitting on you bit. I can't say much about not wanting sex from women, though. I'm a married man that very much loves and needs affection sexually and emotionally from my wife, however, like you, men hit on me constantly. In the past year alone I'd estimate that around 10 men have hit on me vs only two occasions where I can remember a woman hitting on me. So in ratio I've had quadruple the amount of men hit on me vs women. I don't think it's my physical persona that gives men the impression that I'm gay, as I am your typical 21 year old looking/dressing straight guy. To be honest I don't know what it is, but what I do know is that it's degrating and insulting. Especially since at least half of the ten men know that I'm married to a woman. The only thing that I can conclude is that yes, they know I'm not into guys, but by trying to flatter me with smooth talk and gestures that they may pull a "gay side" out of me. I was where you are now- I liked dick before I met my wife. I swung on both sides of the tree (bisexual), which I now know was because of the SA I suffered by the multiple men. I know within myself I'm not gay or even bi, but I used to think I was because male to male sexual contact in my eyes was becoming so normal.

As for your question "if I like male genitals that makes me gay or bi, right?", well in theory, yes it makes you at least bisexual. Straight men do not find male sex organs sexually arousing. This is not to say that you can't be bisexual and still love and care for your wife too. You can still receive and accept affection from your wife and embrace that without having to worry that you're living a lie. Lots of bisexual men get married to women and have happy lives. In fact in the first year or so I was with my wife I still identified as bisexual before I realized that I actually wasn't. You also mentioned the need to to masturbate- and I think that's awesome. You can jerk it and imagine yourself having sex with a guy- by doing this you're expressing your bisexual feelings, yet remaining faithful to your wife. Evetually you may want to be honest with your wife about what your feeling. If you don't then you will, maybe not right away, but eventually feel like your living a lie.
I hope that this has helped. It's blunt, but straight forward and logical. Good luck buddy.

#189348 - 10/31/07 10:33 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Buernt]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR

Thanks so much for sharing. Your experiences mirror much of what I am going through now. I am currently engaged and am afraid of breaking up the marriage down the line because of my yearning for men.

But what is that yearning and does it NEED to have so much control over me?

For once in my life, I am learning how to be there for someone else. I am learning what my fiance needs emotionally, and am taking immense pleasure in giving this to her. What makes it difficult is the doubt - If I tell her I'm committed and whats more, really BE here for her now, is that a promise I can't keep? so I resist being close NOW to her. But, time and time again, I am telling myself "I am committed" and I tell her, and the love I feel she gets from me is warm and whole.

And then at times, she showers me with the same and it takes all I have to just ACCEPT it without questioning if I deserve it.

God, we have been there for each other so much. My love and commitment continue to grow. However, when I get excited about a guy, or start preferring to fantasize about a male friend of mine during masturbation, I feel guilty. Am I being unfaithful? Will I be unfaithful in the future in a more real way?

Your use of seeing your feelings for your wife without discounting them. That is JUST what I want. I MUST remember that I love her, that she sexually excites me, and that that we are there for each other emotionally. The seed of downward spiral seems to be when I label it as "not enough". As you may understand, I don't label my friendships with men, or my fantasies about them as "not enough" generally. But this makes sense, since I do not feel threatened by the idea of "not being attracted to men enough." On the contrary, I would prefer these attractions to go away, which seems to strengthen them and thus my anxiety and thus strengthen them more, into a vicious cycle of out of control feelings.

I'd be mighty curious to here more of your internal thinking process regarding your wife. I feel I'm at a crossroads and I can't stand the idea of losing this relationship I've built up with so much heartache and love and learning. But I know I can't live in this fear, either. She is not my savior. But, I feel for once that I care enough for someone else that I am motivated to be the best I can be for her. And for me. For US.

She told me the other day that she had a fantasy of changing the diaper of our future child and telling her she is the most loved baby in the world because her daddy loves her more than anything in the world. This made me cry. I wanted this so much. But I also want this woman's love so much, it scares me to hear it sometimes because I remember the times that I almost let it go.

#191392 - 11/14/07 04:11 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
Csmith Offline
New Here

Registered: 06/05/07
Posts: 12
Loc: Portland, OR

You sound very sure that a man will eventually feel as if he is living a lie if he doesn't admit his sexual fantasies about men during masturbation to his wife. May I ask why you are so adament about this?
Observation? Personal experience? Your gut?

#194527 - 12/09/07 06:34 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
123 Offline
New Here

Registered: 11/23/07
Posts: 8
Loc: ( BC, Canada, Vancouver)
I have got to say something about what you said Hayden.
I believe that if you think about having sex with a man while you masturbate, you open a door in your mind. This door will be more and more open everytime you will think that having sex with a man is gonna make you feel good.
We attract what we think about.
Then, one day, things like looking gay porn will become normal and after that, the side of yourself, i mean the side who is truly straight, will become less and less powerfull and will loose control more and more of your capacity to do straight things.

One day,it happened to me and I know what I'm talking about, you gonna have to fight with the side of you that wants so much to have sex with a guy and you know what, your good side(straight side) may loose the battle. Then you may start to thinks that if you have sex with a guy, your gonna be happy, so much that you may go and have sex with another male.

I did, and I know now.

We, man, are born straight, its who we are. We have a side who want to grow happy and a side who want us to suffer a lot and die.

When you raped, you receive energy from the abuser. This energy open a part of your mind who I'm pretty shour was close.
Think about a spot of dirt. Then someone put a seed on it and what happened, if the seed was from a lettuce, its gonna be a lettuce, if it was from a apple tree, its gonna be an apple tree and if the dirt was an human being, and the seed was a raped, what is gonna grow inside of the person will become something closer and closer to a rape. It started to grow with tought, like about sex with other guy until having sex with other guy become normal and then, treated other guy like a real peace of shit, like meat like a guy who your gonna use to have sex. and whan you turn your back, you realise how you feel and the things is after who loose the first battle against your bad side, its very hard to change.

I will do everything to put away those tought about having sex with gay, even if i think they make me feel good because I know were they are from and what they want to do in my life, they wnat to destroy my life the same we it destroy the life of the guy who raped me.


#194857 - 12/12/07 12:36 AM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: 123]
LandOfShadow Offline

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
Hi Lostone,

I have simular struggles as you describe. And thanks for your post, because I feel less alone.

I've only had relationships with men and have a 16 year monogamous relationship with a man. We have very much a relationship like a marriage--I would never cheat on him, it just isn't worth it.

BUT, I know I am attracted to women and am slowly working to connect with my body more and more. I realized recently that I never got attention from my father, and that was what I was looking for that perhaps helped get me abused sexually by men. A lot of things got deeply, deeply confused by that abuse. I say, my sexuality and abuse got put in a blender on high. And I'm spending the rest of my life trying to separate it all out. I wanted a male role model as a child--my father didn't take an interest in me. I developed a real fear, terror really in my own attractions to anyone, and found it much easier to have sex with men, who would "run the show" than women, where I felt so ashamed. I couldn't initiate without waves of fear and freezing up. It happened, I didn't know what it was or why or anything, just that I was so uncomfortable, ashamed and women were obviously confused.

My delemma now is I really would like to explore my attractions to women, have sex and find out about that part of me. But it's really terrifying to end a pretty good and 16 yr relationship to do that. Am I re-enacting abuse though? What's me and what's abuse? I feel I'll never know.

Practically speaking, I know many happy gay couples. My partner knows all this and is as supportive as he can be. I sure wish I could have had a "normal" exploration of my sexuality without the abuse, shock, trauma stuff, whether that be with men or women. Perhaps being practical in all this confusion is helpful. Try to find something that works. Perhaps with me, the abuse is just part of me now forever.

Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you

Paul Eluard

#198641 - 01/08/08 09:19 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: hayden502]
01 Offline
New Here

Registered: 01/05/08
Posts: 7
Loc: Cape Town, South Africa
Hi Lostone and all the others!
I am new to this website. I have read all of the above and am glad that I have eventually found guys who experienced similar sex-related traumas in their childhood, that are the cause for identity issues.
I'm not sure whether this discussion has been closed, but I either way decided to comment with the hope that one of you guys may want to help me and respond to my "similar, but different" issues.
I am a 55 year old accounting professional who lives in South Africa (SA). I was married for almost 25 years before we divorced 3 years ago. I have 3 adult children (3 girls and 1 boy).
From +/-4 years I realised I was "different" to other boys, as I started "cross-dressing" from about that age, until I was 16.
For most of my life, up until Christmas 2007, I could only recall that at about age 5 I had a sexual encounter with a boy (+/-5),one of our neighbours and the girl next door (+/-3 or 4). We did not penetrate her, but we took turns to lie on top of her (with the other one below) or vice versa. As far as I can recall this was done a couple of times outside their backyard. I recall that her mother caught us and that was the last time we "played" this game.
When I was 10-12 about 4 of the neighbourhood boys varying from 10 to about 4 years old "played" on a weekly basis with our own and each other's erect penises between the shruberies in the garden of the other boy, my age. I recall that the youngest boy had the biggest penis of us all and that really confused me, as I thought the bigger boys (including myself) should have the largset penis, as he could not even cum and we had to tell him that it will only happen to him when he is our age. It really troubled me that my penis was smaller than this young boy's and he was also the one that I always wanted to touch to feel what it was like to have a handfull...
I endured a lot of mockery in junior school, as even teachers referred to me as emasculate. In our culture back then it was the worst insult a boy of that age could receive, as it was "normal and natural" for a boy to play rugby (football) and to be rough, as was my younger brother, whom my father favoured until his death at age 60, many years ago.
In high school I continued to "cross-dress" although it wasn't really cross-dressing. I would hang ANYTHING around my body and would play out as if I was a girl. Until this day I don't know why I wanted to do this, as I "fell in love" with a girl when I was about 16, but we only kissed. This "love affair" did not last very long, but at least I had now further desire to cross-dress up until this day.
A close friend of mine committed suicide during the next year and this was one of many turning points in my life that followed. I really could not understand why he did this while his parents were on vacation abroad. The idea of suicide entered my mind after this and was a struggle ever since. I reasoned to myself that if HE dis it then I had more reason to do it, as he was one of the best sportsmen of our school.
This is the point were I started struggling with depression. I've seen numerous T's, but never disclosed the possibility of being exposed to "sex" at a very young and tender age. They also did not ask anything in this regard, or suggested anything as such, even though various psychological tests were performed.
After high school I had to complete compulsary service for one year. I loathed army life, although I enjoyed the showering in the evening. That was the next time in my life when I realised that most men have a larger (MUCH LARGER) penis than I have. Although I enjoyed watching them, especially when they washed (or played with) their genitals. Many time I would go to the toilets afterwards and masturbate after I've seen their "huge" penises. I don't know whether this became a compulsive behaviour at that stage in my life, and or that another impulse "triggered" it.
I was VERY concerned that I might be homosexual at the time as this was TOTALLY unacceptable behavior in my culture. (I'm an Afrikaans speaking South African, for those who know our culture....). It was very demoralising and I was exceptionally afraid during this time of what my father and the family would do to me should they find out of my inclinations, as my father totally freaked out when he arrived unexpectedly early from work one afternoon and saw me when I was acting out and cross-dressed with my mother's clothes on my body.
During this period in the army I found out that the girl I was dating just before I went to the army, fell pregnant with my child the last month before I went to the army. I have not disclosed this to anybody (except once last year to my T - who was "amazed" with my "interesting" life up until then? I realise now, after reading your stories, that he had NO clue what I've really been going through all these years and that I need a knowledgeable T asap. (Maybe someone in the Cape Town area can be of assistance in this regard.)
Her body, however, aborted our child after 3 months of pregnancy. I hitch-hiked about 1600km (1000 miles) from the army camp to where she lived during the Easter weekend of 1971 to end our relationship (coward/brave?); I could not continue with the relationship knowing what I was experiencing/going through in the army, regarding my sexual orientation. She tried to commit suicide after I broke up with her, but survived and married another man. I have not had any contact with her ever since.
After army I enrolled at a college/university and graduated with a Masters degree in Accounting a couple of years later. It was one of the best periods in my life. I accepted Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour of my life and the future awaited me, I believed....
During this period there were no sexual encounters, although I enjoyed the times in the showers with the other young men with their MUCH larger penises than mine. I even ensured that the guy with the largest penis in my dormitory became my best frien. It somehow did something to my ego....?, although I was never allowed to touch it, as he was straight and was dating a girl whom he later married.
After college I moved to one of the major cities in SA where I met this guy who was 4 years my junior, with the most beautiful and huge cock I've ever seen. We played squash on a regular basis. I have beaten him most times on the squash court, but he was everytime the "winner" in the showers. I was exremely jealous of him for this, as many men showed their appreciation for his endowment!! Even though he was not making any progress at night school and I was excelling!!
He became an architect and married his college sweetheart.
I qualified as a Certified/Chartered Accountant and was awarded a scolarship to work in the UK. My first real encounter with homosexual men was in the public toilets in the underground stations in London. It felt like "homecoming", as the scenes in these toilets were what caused "wet dreams" during the preceding years after (and during) my college years. Only playing and watching and masturbation.... No penetration!!
After 2 years working in London and obtaining international experience (and lots of sexual experience with gay men in underground stations, I went back to SA. On my return to SA a mutual friend introduced me to my wife to be. We got married 7 months later, as I was convinced that being married and having children, would "rescue" me from being gay; or other people finding out that I thought I was gay, as I was by this time totally confused.
I have not been penetrated by a man or have penetrated a man by this stage in my life. All that I really was interested in was to see and touch guys with HUGE cocks. (I was in my early 30's by then).
Our marriage of 25 years was stormy from the start. We had 3 children whilst enbattled in a power struggle that ended in divorce after about 25 years. I continued to meet men in public places during our marriage, and this started again after about 1 year of married life. It started after a major arguement. Only "playing", watching. touching and masturbating. At home I had to PERFORM, but my real desire was to meet men and check who had the largest penis and compare it physically with mine (one guy in Amsterdam said to me it seems I was more interested to see and touch his penis than to get to know him for who he really was - to my shame I must admit that this was the case).
I had my first penetration by a man after I was married for about 5 years. I was disgusting and I realised that this was not what I wanted sexually.
My wife confirmed after 8 years of married life that she no longer loved me and that she had found love with one of my employees. I was devasted (without real reason). She did not know of my "past" and I had no desire to tell her. Up until today I have not told her what had happened to me since my childhood, as I did not relate whatever was happening to me/us to possible encounters in my very early childhood.
I filed for divorce and after seeing a councillor, we decided to give our marriage another chance. We were not serving the Lord during the 1st part of our marriage and I decided that I was going to serve the Lord again, as it was my best years during college when I was serving Him and not my own evil desires. I tried to convince myself during this time that she committed adultery, not me, as I was only "playing" with other men, nothing serious such as penetration, etc....
Six months later I had a heart attack whilst driving back from the office one Friday afternoon. This was the second turning point in my life. I promised God that I will serve Him fully for the rest of my life if He would cause me to survive. (I did not realise my wife was pregnant with our third child at the time).
What followed was the most difficult period in my life, as I made this promise to God but had the urge to see and touch and masturbate with other men. The bigger their penises the more jealous and unhappy I would get, and the more miserable person I became. I thought it was totally unfair of God to well endow the majority of men, and to under endow me (although He endowed me with a very good brain, which somehow could not figure this out, as it had an emotional content that I did not know how to really deal with.) I asked God soooo many times in my life why has He not given all men the same size, as I equated size with manlyhood and manhood! You see, you can barely see my penis, although I recently heard that some men are "showers" and others are "growers". This has given me very little comfort since I heard this as my mind has not yet been renewed in this regard. I trust that this will happen soon as I can barely handle the effects of depression and a low self-esteem over many years, any longer. At one stage I thought it was only straight men who were well endowed, but came to realise watching gay porn that this is not the case.
During these years up until our divorce, our intimate life totally vanished. After the heart attack and a heart by-pass operation I was on high doses of anti-depressants and serious heart-related medication. I started having erection problems while with my wife, but the odd occation I was fondling a man there was no erectile problems...?
after my divorce I decided that I must try a gay lifestyle as an alternate. During a period of about 6 months and many encounters with gay men (even alloying someone to penetrate me), I came to the conclusion that this was not for me.
I still struggle with SIZE and often go to the gym mainly to check the size of other men out.
During last year I came to realise that I have difficulty with this lonely lifestyle all on my own, not dating anybody, and I could no longer bear the secret of my life what I have told you in this message. I decided to see a T who was unknown (to me), and I told him everything.
This caused some relief, although I realised after sharing with him there must have been something else that "caused" all the pain and tears and heartache over many years of depression, caused by inferiority and a low self esteem.
Once during and after a Weekend of Retreat for Men, I asked God what the origin of all of this confusion was and whether I was sexually abused when I was a child, that I could not recollect or remember. I am convinced that He revealed to me during subsequent quiet times that a younger brother of my mother committed indecent acts with me when I was about 2-3 y/o.
My widowed mother visited me during the recent Christmas period, and I asked her about my childhood and which men were allowed alone with me when I was an infant. At first she did not want to talk about it, but later admitted that this same uncle of mine at the age of about 16-18 often was asked to babysit me, then 2-3 y/o. I told her what my suspicions were and she immediately apologised and said she never knew, but that their were rumours that he and his older brother were sexually abused by the churchwarden when they were very young.
She also told me that this same brother of hers (my uncle) was accused of raping his own baby daughter when she was an infant. His ex-wife divorced him because of this and he was subsequently jailed. He also served many jail sentences after that; the reasons for this was not disclosed to me by my mother, I think because of being ashamed of her brother, as we try to live a decent live.
What should I do? Must I investigate this further and possibly get him in jail again (I have no rememberance of him doing such things to me), or must I forgive him? Is it possible that this could have been the reason for all the turmoil in my life and my obsession with SIZE and to cross-dress until I was 16?
Am I gay? Am I straight? How do I find out? PLEASE HELP ME!


#253561 - 10/08/08 01:47 PM Re: identity what am I (Trigger Warnings!!!) [Re: Dewey2k]
Conflicted_One Offline

Registered: 10/07/08
Posts: 3
Originally Posted By: Dewey2k
Men are typically much more direct in their advances. Like you, I am generally hit on by men, but that may be because I don't notice it when women hit on me.

Oh god...this ruined my day. Here is a post of mine from another forum, titled "Your Reaction To Other Guys Finding You Attractive?"

"It's messed up. Very rarely can I tell if a girl is attracted to me or not. Only when she's blunt about it, can I tell...I guess this comes down to me just not thinking I am very attractive. As a matter of fact, there has always been a feeling of distrust towards girls that DID show interest in me...I felt for them to see something special in me, there had to be something wrong with them. This speaks volumes of my poor self image I guess.

Anyway, on the HOCD chart comparing men with HOCD with actually gay men, it said gay men enjoy attention from other men. Me personally, I'm not really threaten and pretty indifferent......but there is an uncomfortable feeling. I also seem to KNOW when men find me attractive. I'm in NYC a lot and it seems like I'm invisible to girls, but not to men?

This weekend, I was out and there was a young kid, had to be in his early teens. Something just told me, that this kid was gay. He seemed to be following me and looking at me in the corner of his eye. He was looking at stuff that I just knew he wasn't interested in me.

There was discomfort for one reason:

WHY. Why me? I heard the term gaydar.....what does a gay man see when he sees me and smiles?

I had a feeling this kid was gay and he is looking at me? Is there some connection between gay men or what?

I remember when I first moved here and there was a bunch of kids who hung out across the street. I was shy and quite, everyone else was out going....except for the token gay kid. He was quite and shy too. Looking back on it, I feel there was like some telepathic connection and he used to look at me strange.

I don't like when a member of the same sex finds me attractive, no. Got that confirmed.

BUT (there is always a but). There has been times when I would FLEE when a girl (even ones I was attracted to!) showed interest in me. I kicked myself in the ass over it and felt conflict...but I think that's because I WISH I didn't shy away. I think I do, because I'm ashamed of my life, my looks and lack of success in my life...which I feel will result in the disappointment of both of us.

I used to half joke if I was either "too stupid or too gay" to realize a girl was hitting on me. I also question if I actually do know she she is interested, but for whatever reason, don't go along.

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