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#211273 - 03/17/08 06:28 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: bardo213]
VLinvictus Offline

Registered: 12/05/07
Posts: 273
Loc: NY
I can empathize, certainly, with the feelings expressed on this thread. As gay man, though, I must say that the topic disturbs me just a bit. The notion that people can be "made gay" as the product of sexual abuse is one of the key arguments used by the anti-gay extremists to label my sexual orientation a psychological disease or disorder than can (and should) be "cured."

That being said, I totally feel for those who feel they have been pressured to adopt one identity or another. This notion that there is only "gay" and "straight" is false -- human sexuality is such a diverse and complicated thing that it can't be easily hammered into such a crude dichotomy. And it is true that young men in their formative years can get confused when sexuality is taken out of the joyful and pleasurable realm it belongs and made a tool of violence and abuse. This intensifies the crime of sexual abuse because it had the lingering effect of preventing young men from truly understanding and appreciating their own sexualities.

This dichotomy between "gay" and "straight," however, is a political result and in some ways a political necessity. In a world where every person were free to love, have sex, and form partnerships with whomever they consensually want, such terms as "gay" and "straight" would have no meaning. That heterosexual monogamy is imposed as the hegemonic cultural paradigm and that those who deviate from that norm are stigmatized and condemned has necessitated that those who do not fit within society's privileged norm to unite under one common banner to fight for our rights and freedoms.

The basis for sexual freedom, though, is not for any person to be pigeonholed into an identity by outside forces but for each person to freely explore and adopt an identity for themselves. Forcing a confused and struggling survivor to identify as "gay" is just as bad as forcing him to identify as "straight." What people -- survivors and otherwise -- need is freedom and space and love and support and acceptance to find out who they truly are, what they truly want, and to form an identity for themselves.

We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars.
~ Oscar Wilde

#211277 - 03/17/08 07:47 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: VLinvictus]
MarkK Offline

Registered: 04/02/07
Posts: 2653
Loc: Denver, CO
Originally Posted By: VLinvictus
What people -- survivors and otherwise -- need is freedom and space and love and support and acceptance to find out who they truly are, what they truly want, and to form an identity for themselves.

Amen, my friend.


#215855 - 04/06/08 05:40 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: MarkK]
JDrock Offline
New Here

Registered: 03/28/08
Posts: 12
I can relate to many of the posters in this thread.

I was molested when I was 11 and I am sexually attracted to men more than women since the age of about 18-19. When I was aged 18-19 though, I was taking drugs and it was during one of these drug taking session that I recalled my CSA and the feelings associated with it.

I am now 26 and hopelessly confused about my sexual identity. I want to be with a woman but I have little feelings towards them and I am not really interested in the actual act of sex with men despite the sexual attraction, which may or may not be due to the association between the stimulus (the perp) and the sexual feeling of being touched.

To make the matter more confusing, when sleeping with women I would often have a 'cold' feeling. I also remembered an incident that occurred when I was about 5. I was watching TV on my mothers lap and suddenly I turned to her and said, "I’ll show you how boyfriends and girlfriends kiss" and tried to kiss her. She of course stopped me and laughed it off but I had these deep feelings of rejection and coldness. The striking thing was I did not know why I had done this. It was purely subconscious Freudian stuff.

I am beginning to think most people have the capacity to be bi-sexual, if you look at situations where access to sex with women is not present (ships, prisons, closed societies like Indian and Arabic and boarding schools) homosexual activity is common. CSA may make a psychological connection between a male perp and sexual excitement but I doubt it makes someone completely gay. My definition of a gay person is someone who only finds members of the same sex attractive. Personally, I believe I do not find women attractive because of an incident that occurred with my mother, which make me 'cold' to women or the male-female relationship model. Sorry for babbling on, I just thought I would share my experiences with trying to understand my sexuality. Confusing stuff! I am seriously considering becoming a reclusive monk, far less complicated.

#219070 - 04/19/08 02:42 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: PhillyPa]
surrender1 Offline

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Gaylord Michigan
It's been almost 12 years ago that I finally admitted I was SA as a child who was about 9 years old, I'm now 48. As recently as three weeks ago my marriage of 6 years fell apart and will end in divorce as a direct result of my continued confusion over sexual identity. We have a 5 year old boy who is the light on my horizon. In fact having a child I was the stay at home parent and still am to protect him from a sometimes cruel world. Today I choose to fight......
I too have had many fantasies of having a sexual relationship with another man and yet wanting to be a heterosexual man. Recently I followed through and met up with a man. Afterwards it was like I was numb and inexpressive to what had just taken place. Today I take a leap of faith not to save my marriage but to salvage what life I have left and not to put closer on my past but to try and understand it and deal with it instead of seeping it under the rug. I'm currently in therapy and doing some real sole searching. I have forgiven my abuser who was an older brother. This I did for me not him. Now that my secret is out I can begin to heal and feel the anger, sadness, fear, and uncertainty that is todays destiny for me. I hated God for a long time until a friend said to me that I was here for a special purpose. I did not understand that comment until I had a child of my own. That is my experience being a survivor can help others as the posts before mine have helped me know I AM NOT ALONE. I've rambled enough....

#219086 - 04/19/08 04:41 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: bardo213]
LandOfShadow Offline

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 684
Loc: Minneapolis, Minnesota USA
... and just learn to love yourself and not be ashamed and fearful. of what has happened everyone has a problem or two. We just need to learn proper tools for learning to deal with these symptoms.

So, so true. It is my own voice that's been so hard to find.

For me, this has just been/made impossibly difficult. On top of the deep confusion of CSA, are the massive waste of "culture wars", million watt transmitters of absolute ignorance, the silent of good men and women, the resounding silence of absent parents, teachers and others.

Here in the US, the politization of sexuality has been disasterous not because the rignt wing is wrong, but because the middle ground, the complexity, the gentleness and ambiguity dealing with our sexuality is lost. Black and white thinking gets us nowhere.

Et par le pouvoir d’un mot Je recommence ma vie, Je suis né pour te connaître, Pour te nommer

And by the power of a single word I can begin my life again, I was born to know you, to name you

Paul Eluard

#219100 - 04/19/08 05:55 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: MollyHatchetrules]
dannym Offline

Registered: 03/25/07
Posts: 543
Loc: Boulder, Colorado
I just wanted to chime in my experience.

I identify as gay. That only occured last year. I am 44 years old and have been with my wife for 25 years. I love her very much and enjoy sex with her. But I have always known I am more attracted to men. My fantatasies have always been around males. My issue, is that I always thought, because I was abused at an early age (1st time age 6 - second time ages 8-14), I was re enacting the the abuse - but I have been in therapy, done exhaustive thining, reflecting and self-evaluation, and i know I am gay - or if you know about the Kinsey scale, probalby a 4 or 5.

My point is, CSA does cause sexual confusion, but for me, once i started to untether all the muck and evaluate my sexuality, I discovered who I am... and it is very nice to know. Do I "want" to be gay? Hell no! It is much more convenient given the world we live in and my domestic situation, to be straight, but wishin' don't make it so. I am who I am... I identify as gay, but i am married with a wonderful family and have a wonderful relationship with a man that i am exploring my feelings with. Is it easy.... good God, No no no... but it is where I am and who I am.

Just my thoughts... sort of off the main topic, sorry about that.


PS... I am, for the first time in my life, feeling "good" about being sexual... feels really good!

Edited by dannym (04/19/08 05:56 PM)
"You should listen to your heart, and not the voices in your head."

Marge Simpson

#219470 - 04/21/08 02:54 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: dannym]
surrender1 Offline

Registered: 04/19/08
Posts: 3
Loc: Gaylord Michigan
After contemplating my above statement I have to agree with LandofShadow, that it is my VOICE that I have lost. In the secret world of my SA I quivered over the littlest of things in life. I seemed to be looking over my shoulder and no one was ever their. Today I make a choice to get help for my past behaviors and with what hand I've been dealt. What ever my sexual identity gay, bi-sexual, heterosexual, take that leaping willing...

#349508 - 01/01/11 07:41 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: ForeverFighting]
WriterKeith Offline

Registered: 12/30/10
Posts: 980
Your post is worded superbly. Please keep contributing. Your POV and the way you express it is very helpful.

#354343 - 02/21/11 07:10 PM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: MollyHatchetrules]
alanhoops Offline

Registered: 02/21/11
Posts: 21

I can relate to the arrested development issue. I still feel like a little kid even though I'm in my fifties. I am still surprised when I look in the mirror and see an older man. Sometimes I feel like I'll never feel like a man or feel masculine because of the CSA. All the name calling made me believe I was inferior to the other boys. Fantasizing about them only made me believe they were right. But my fantasies were mostly about pleasing them like I did the abuser,not having a loving relationship. Kissing was not ever a thought. Just being used by these superior boys and hoping they might like me for doing such a favor for them is what I hoped for. Thankfully it was all fantasy as I would have more regrets and shame.

#355951 - 03/09/11 12:22 AM Re: On 'being gay' [Re: alanhoops]
Michael Murphy Offline

Registered: 03/03/11
Posts: 19
Loc: United States
I can relate to this , I have been Gay and guess still am in a way. After what happened to me with my mother, I found that I liked sex with guys growing up. But I didn't date butch I went for guys that were either transgender or shemales. I Like the beauty of a woman , but not the woman herself. If that makes any sence at all. I was in prison for almost 5years and never feed my hunger for closeness of sex. I meet a girl that was gay and we became friends and are married now 15 years. She was also abused. but its werd she know what I have done and me her and it doesn't matter. Yes When I get into a hating mood of woman by a trigger or something I want out of our life together, but that goes away after 10 min. I don't know if I am still gay or staright, and it doesn't matter. I have been with both and enjoyed both. Since I have confronted my mother I haven't been able to have sex with my wife with out feeling bad. I can't though 15 years away, but I would rather have sex with a man then a woman. But I do love my wife she is my best buddy.

Michael Murphy

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