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#129397 - 10/16/04 03:04 PM The "How's" of recovery
jwwells Offline

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Ontario
The how-to's of recovery give me the greatest problem.

I commented on the "fire&ice" thread, which reminds me that the Liberal Party of Canada, which is the government, strongly opposes "wasting" tax-payer dollars in studying or helping male victims of violence: Helping men would mean angering the radical feminists which would loose votes. There are no votes in helping men. That leads me to a day of gloom thinking about the contempt for all males which is the Canadian way of handling violence.

I could go on and on. Every time I make a comment, it will be countered with "Men have no right to such feelings." That is universal. And I do not know how to handle it.

I find myself torn between speaking truth as I have experienced it or saying nothing.... Either path puts me in the situation of hurt.

I commented on another list about the church of today being either into contempt for all males OR contempt for both males and females by defining an old fashioned (and inaccurate) view of family. Which is true enough. It was IMMEDIATELY countered with "Men are violent and so have no right to such feelings." There are no places where experience can be talked of without someone making such a countermove. NONE! Yes, even here, although it is much milder and far less strident than in other places.

The No-Safe-Place together with my desperate need to talk through these concepts --to arrive at some form of internal solution-- create a feedback loop. I'm always angry because I cannot be heard and always angry because I so desperately want to be heard.

The "How" of how to handle this creates more problems for me than anything else. I do not know how to put off the pain to another time or discuss the pain in a way that is accpetable to the man-haters. It leaves me frustrated, which is as bad as the original pain.


Say what you mean: Mean what you say.
Whatever you say: Say it with love.
The Moody Blues: Keys to the Kingdom

#129398 - 10/16/04 03:53 PM Re: The "How's" of recovery
markgreyblue Offline

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
jw - i am not a canadian - but i do feel there is a huge leniancy on female perps against male victims - regardless -
the male youth for some reason could in no way be a victim or better the subject of crime???!??!?

this is a huge issue -
that is real
at the same time shatters the iconic image of what our 'gender' ought or must have.

i can empathize with your frustration in part -
you are not alone-

" not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous

#129399 - 10/16/04 06:53 PM Re: The "How's" of recovery
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
It's a tough one, not enough effort is put into understanding the subject, swept under the carpet, put a lid on it. One day the whole thing explodes in their faces.

Politicians, sit on the fence, there is without a shadow of doubt, very serious social difficulties emerging by not addressing this issue. It is far more economical to "fix" the injured child, than to try and fix the "broken adult".

Boys, men and indeed anyone who is affected by sexual violence need a source to turn to, I read something on a little girl who was blocking abuse from her father going back 7years, her mother was told by this very experienced welfare team, "don't worry she will probably grow out of it". The same team said, there is nothing we can do!!!

If this is the sort of approach we can expect from so called trained counsellors, then we don't need help.

God, if you gave me the strength to be able to work with this shit, I would be enrolling as a counsellor today. At least I can identify with the issues surrounding what the kid can go through.
Sadly, I could not see me being able to be deal with it, as I get too emotional on the issue.


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#129400 - 10/16/04 08:32 PM Re: The "How's" of recovery
Dan88 Offline

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
I'll throw in my two cents here. I think there's a really powerful resistance to addressing male victims because men find it intolerable to view themselves as victims. And this plays perfectly with the views of those women (not all) who want to frame issues in the context of only men victimizing women.

Elsewhere here we were discussing whether we ever divulged our abuse and I started remembering what happened when I talked to a state police officer about it one time -- about 20 years ago now. He was real nice and told me to look at all I had going for me in life and basically to forget it. He wasn't trying to be evil. He was doing what he thought was best. Because he understood that when a man comes out and says he was raped as a child, sure people will be disgusted by the rapist. But they'll also be disgusted by the victim. So as nicely as he could he was telling me the reality I faced. Either be branded as damaged goods or just suck it up and move on.

#129401 - 10/17/04 03:33 AM Re: The "How's" of recovery
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1986
Loc: Flint, Michigan
I invite you to read page 11 of Men Speak Out The Newsletter of MaleSurvivor. I believe there is still a .PDF version on the site or you can join and have them mailed to you.

Together we make a voice that can be heard. The word is beginning to get out there.

Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

#129402 - 10/17/04 04:08 PM Re: The "How's" of recovery
jwwells Offline

Registered: 09/10/04
Posts: 34
Loc: Ontario
Thanks for the comments. The logic or the knowledge is not the problem. I've read so much I could write several books or do a PhD on the topic. I am writing a book --on the spiritual side of recovery and focusing on men's spirituality.

It is the emotions which create the problem. It is the answer to the question "How to handle the emotions?" which has me at a complete stop. I cannot go on without answering my question.

I went in to use the bank machine yesterday. I find that by using the machine 2 cents will be given to the local women's shelter. I have no problem with helping battered women: I have a BIG problem with the battered women's advocates and their loud demand that women do not abuse men.

Keeping their bigotry in the public eye kills children and I HAVE A BIG PROBLEM WITH KILLING CHILDREN. Furthermore, helping some group who have foundation and government funding when another group have only contempt (battered men and their children) is wrong and makes me want to puke. So, I spend another day in frustration and anger.

It is the frustration and anger which stop me from using my knowledge. Furthermore, I do not like not feeling well, which is how I feel when the frustration and anger infest my mind.

Add in, there is NO PLACE where a man can be safe in talking about these issues. All will allow contempt for men as we all are infested with contempt for men. I could give the statistics and theory of current gender mythology, it is not all that complex, but it is not with the theory or stats where my problem lies: It is in the emotions. Or in another way of seeing it, the only places where a male can safely speak, allow contempt for women which I will not allow!

I find myself hung on the petard of justice. Living in a society which will not allow me justice and not knowing how to handle the emotions.

More theory cannot help me: I'm swimming in theory. No. Here I need to connect with a much more basic function, that of the emotionally strong. Here the need is sight of the spirit which keeps going in the face of all.


Say what you mean: Mean what you say.
Whatever you say: Say it with love.
The Moody Blues: Keys to the Kingdom

#129403 - 10/19/04 02:52 PM Re: The "How's" of recovery
forlauren Offline

Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 63
Loc: British Columbia, Canada
Dan88 I noticed you used the word "divulged" when talking about past abuse. A lot of the times the word "admit" is used, as in "I admitted I was raped"
How sad is that? why do we always have to feel we are conceding, like we're permitting access to our very selves in some way by telling what another has done?
who cares. i say shout it to the sky. let the shame cards fall where they may. I am proud to the core of me.


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