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#128701 - 08/24/04 11:29 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
crisispoint Offline

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts

Not the message I hoped you'd take away from all this.

Yes, this IS a brotherhood, and YOU belong to it, even when you don't feel like you do.

There is at least ONE person who cares about you, and hurts when you hurt. That one person will do their damndest to help you SEE how important you are to the world, and to them.

For now, I take a look at your daughters, and I think it's sad that the only thing you believe you can leave behind for them is a life insurance policy.

Think about this - are you SURE that's what THEY want? Money because their father felt so Goddamn alone and useless that he chased it it before some milestones were reached. Marriage? Grandkids? Support that THEY might need?

Are you sure that your pain will be over when you decide to end it? I'm not talking about simple "life after death" issues. I'm talking about that last thought before it's over - and that last thought being "they are going to hurt worse than I ever imagined, and I CHOSE to do this to them!" This is one reason I'm still here.

Are you sure that there truly isn't hope? One more smile around the corner? One more laugh? One more, "can you give me some advice because I need to hear from you?"

All valid questions. And their hard. I don't mean to add to your pain, but you HAVE to be sure you have no worth, that you don't belong.

Because I think you do. And I care about you.

Think about it, Jim.

PM me anytime you need to.

Peace and love,


There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

#128702 - 08/24/04 12:26 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Kenn Offline

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Jim and all:

I am still learning to recognize (read trust) the love of - and for - men. So in this forum I may sometimes seem to be wearing rose-coloured glasses.

But whatever it is that's going on in here- whether it's real or not, one dimensional or not - it beats the hell out of the places I have looked for love all my life, whether it was in bars, bath-houses, churches (some) or parks.

I did not seek, then find, this forum because I was well-adjusted, life-loving, self-affirming or trusting. But I live in hope that I will become part or all of those things.

In my lowest moments I can still marvel at how much I have come through - and survived. This leads me to believe that, down days notwithstanding, I will continue to survive as long as I can naturally draw breath. Sometimes it seems unbearable but never has it always seemed so. It feels like the ugly phase of a caterpiller becoming a butterfly, but I can alwasy look back and find something that has kept me going long enough to get through a bad patch.


"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

#128703 - 08/24/04 10:58 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
suicide isn't painless, as the theme from MASH said, it's very painful.

The pain of even contemplating suicide is deep and incomprehensible to those that haven't been there.
The pain of those left behind that love us, despite what we're going through, is beyond normal grief.

Over the years I've lost three friends to suicide, one was abused alonside me. The other two had other demons to contend with.
My brother tried and damn near succeeded, and we've talked often and frankly about suicide, because I've been there as well.
I know that it can look like the "answer" but I have learned since that it isn't.

How did I learn "my truth"? the hard way I guess.
By failing I saw things differently. It wasn't a blinding flash of inspiration or a vision, nothing as dramatic as that. Just a slow realization that suicide was final, and of no benefit to ANYONE, least of all me.

I don't know what will work for you, I wouldn't be that presumptuous, what I will give you though is support and friendship, an open ear, hopefully an open mind.
Your way through this difficult time will be yours to find, and find it you will.

We all need support and help at different times, if it's your time right now, then we're here to give freely.

Take care

Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#128704 - 08/25/04 02:34 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
CFO Dave Offline

Registered: 08/14/04
Posts: 104
Loc: Millis MA

Like Dave I wouldn't presume to tell you what will work for you.

What has always worked for me is that even when I'm that low I can always find one person to focus on. The thought of what that person would feel or do as a result of my suicide has always kept me going. Sometimes that person is my mother, my wife, a friend, my sister, my kids. At one point, just knowing what my boss would say about me after I was gone kept me going. I wouldn't give him the satisfaction of being able to tell people he was right, that I wasn't strong enought to get that promotion.

Be strong Jim. We do care about you.


"We deceive ourselves when we fancy that only weakness needs support. Strength needs it far more."
-Madame Swetchine

"The soul that is within me no man can degrade."
-Frederick Douglas

#128705 - 08/25/04 05:21 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Aden Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Yes Jim,

Many of us can't read beyond our own intentions. We respond to things that were never said and ignor the intent of the speakers. And it is clear that it is a common problem which will not change just because we want it to.

What we have to do is look past the pack mentality. That isn't going to go away. There is nothing either of us can do or say to change that. But we can continue to use this source as a method of learning how to heal.

Loins, and Tigers, and Bears!. Oh my!! And even the Wizard isn't all that helpful.

Scant words of comfort from a flying monkey.


#128706 - 08/25/04 10:30 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...

I just read through your post again, I am deeply saddened to see how a father can treat his son. No father in the World ever has any right to do these things, to their children, sadly we see it all too often, I see the damage that parents and guardians can do to children, I work with giving benefits to these kids.

It hurts so deep, to see what they are put through, at such an early age, I cry for them, I hope they get the help, that we never got, but, whatever help they get, it cannot suffice for a normal nurturing family, and normal childhood.

My childhood was a battlefield brought on by SA, but the common element in abuse, is the mental challenge that does the damage, it damages us beyond any imagination, but only we know, just how challenging it was, nobody can ever know what challenges we all faced, but we did it, and it leaves so much mental garbage.

PM me anytime, if you want brotherhood, then maybe reach out to some of us here, we are here to listen, to care, I care, I listen. I can see your point, but never forget, we are all hurt here, and hurt so much, we think nobody cares, because that's what we always thought, that is what we always think, because we have lived a life of thinking, nobody cares.

Truth is, I care, I don't want to see anyone going through this mess and feeling alone, and without anyone to think he exists, we've all been there, and we know what it is like, when it happens, we think the World is such a lonely place, where nobody can see why there is so much hurt, we don't share it, because we are conditioned to bottle it up.

We can only be brothers, if we can make the move to embrace each other, but always remember this Jim, you are among brothers, the very one's who have been there and understand.

We may not have travelled the same road, but we have all travelled parallel in this World.

I always remember when I was a boy, thinking of other kids, going through this hell, and thinking!

If only I could say what I was thinking to a kid, who was going through the same shit as me, and going through the same problems, would he be a friend for life, I bet he would.

Is that not what brought you here?

I don't know, but don't let despair win, I know it is so strong sometimes, but look at the hand of friendship already reaching out to you on this thread.

Do we mean nothing?
Do we really care?

Jim, we aint here, not to care, we are here for each other, let us make it happen

take care


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#128707 - 08/25/04 11:22 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Dan88 Offline

Registered: 08/07/02
Posts: 247
Loc: DC
I've looked at your post probably 10 times and don't know what to say. But it moved me enough that I figure not replying is cowardice on my part.

I respect your openness and your ability to put your feelings out there and tell so much of your story. I'm deeply saddened when you talk about killing yourself and I hope you know that there are always other things to try before you hit that point. Take it from me, I've tried a lot of them and still think I've got plenty of things to try before I run out of options.

I understand some of what you say about their being a clique here. But I'm certainly not a part of it and I don't think the people who are do it to be hurtful. They're just finding support in a way that helps them.

As for me, I suppose I'm one of the drifters who comes in and out of this place and takes what he can and leaves the rest. Hope you'll join me in that approach to things here. I've found there's a lot of support here and besides, if you're not part of the clicque, you don't have to put up with all the drama that goes with that. ;\)

Hope you're taking good care of yourself.


#441140 - 07/17/13 11:04 AM Re: had it with this place!!!! [Re: jimrh]
victor-victim Offline

Registered: 09/27/03
Posts: 6387
Loc: 𝒪 𝒦anada


have no fear.
it's ok.
sometimes i feel the same way.
at least you know what to say.

vent and ventilate, brother, vent and ventilate!
drink in the love. spit out the hate!

you are in the perfect place to express yourself.



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