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#128690 - 08/23/04 05:03 AM had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
I have had it with this so-called 'brotherhood'.

There is no love, no support here unless you are the 'one'. The one who dominates each and every discussion on this board.

He is someone who has many trials and tribulations. He has created a great circle of support from his <25 year old MS members.

Isn't it interesting.

This website is not at all about supporting survivors of sexual abuse. It is NOT a brotherhood.

It is a click.

You're either in or you're not.

I shouldn't complain because it's not different than that in real life.

Some people can hurt, can cry, can talk about it and be consoled, loved, shown compassion.

Others, are slapped, spit on, stomped on, hated.

I've thought all day today about why it is that the 'one' so upsets and triggers me.

It is because here, in this so-called safe place, he is treated with the same love, patience and affection as my father was by my family, my mother, his family, now my brother and sisters.

Here if you disagree with the 'one', then you are evil, you are a liar, a fraud, you are a fake, deceitful.

It was the same with my father. Nothing I could ever do was good enough for anyone. Only if I towed the party line of my father was I worthy of anything. I could not. I may have been biologically my fathers son, but in every other way I was and am the anti-Christ.

The only touch I ever received from my father has from his fist. It is the same with the 'one'. I only get the fist of the ultimate....I am a liar and a fraud. I am that because I lied to my ex-wife and kids for 15 years.

I am gay.

Now I have the added and validated extra baggage of being the sinner. Love the sinner, hate the sin.

I pray so often that God would just take me away and send me to hell when I sleep. I do not have the guts to do it during the day when I'm asleep.

Yes, it's come to that. I have thrown away my marriage because I am a sinner. I am gay. I want to be ok, but it doesn't work that easily.

I tried unsuccessfully to answer a challenge of being a fraud and a liar. I was continuously interrupted. By the 'one'.

No one heard me.

It's the same with my family. My mother calls me Satan. My sister says I can't be gay because God doesn't make mistakes.

The truth hurts.

Love the sinner, hate the sin. Thank you for reminding me.

Why can't God take it away? Perhaps some are just destined to be punished, it is their future. I am punished because of what happened. God hates me. Don't say he doesn't because it just is so. God hates the freaks.

I wanted my cousin to love me. He was the only one who cared or looked at me, or touched me. Only thing was, it wasn't the right kind of touch.

I let it happen. No-one to tell. Didn't matter anyway cause no-one would have believed me.

Just like in 8th grade when my father got angry at me and stripped me naked and beat me with his belt so badly as I begged for mercy, that I had whelts and blood stripes on my back. My gym teacher asked what happened. I said I had a bike accident. He walked away.

It's that simple.

I don't want any sympathy or pity. Because I am angry. And I want to simply go to sleep and not wake up.

No one hears me. But everyone hears the 'one'.

It's ok. He deserves it. He hurts.

Pray for him.

He deserves it.


#128691 - 08/23/04 05:25 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821

There's a lot of pain in your post, I can sense that pretty easily. Frankly, after coming here and learning so much from everyone, I don't care if anyone is gay, straight, bi-sexual, a-sexual, or celibate. This board has opened my eyes to my own prejudice (homophobia) of the past, and I feel quite ashamed to have thought like I did then. While I'm straight and the thought be being with a man does nothing for me, I'm ashamed of the judgments I had of others before.

We (survivors, recoverers, brothers, whatever word you like to use) are, in my opinion, an interesting lot, because we were all dealt a hand of shit in life, yet we're still alive, consuming oxygen, still trying to make a go of it. Gotta be a reason for it.

I can hear the frustration in your post, and I know we can all feel at times that we are one lone voice crying in the wilderness. Not so, in my opinion - you're being heard and your frustration is being felt.

Hoping for peace for you, Jim, I know you've had a crappy childhood. Night before last I was laying in bed with my wife talking, trying to explain the frustration I'm feeling with it being like no one can understand what's going on within me. I get the feeling you feel the same way.

I hope this rambling post of mine has helped you some, I really do.


#128692 - 08/23/04 05:37 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
You are correct Eddie, no-one seems to understand. They post things about understanding but really they don't.

I remember lying in bed next to my wife over a year ago, late in the evening talking about things. She didn't get it.

The only thing she understood was that I was 'disordered' (as the Catholic Church calls homosexuality). We went to a Catholic Church approved marriage counselor who'd worked with these 'issues' before.

I knew from the very second that I walked in and met him that I was a condemned soul. Yes he'd worked with people like me before. But there was no compassion or understanding.

What I needed to do was to stop being me. I needed to recognize and submit to complete self-denial.

I could only exist for the pleasure of my wife and my children. I must only perform and do my duties to give her pleasure. By extension then, also my children. I could not exist as a person.

I only went 2 or three times to that Catholic counselor. With each visit I became more distressed.

Now that the whole world knows, it may be easier to know that everyone thinks I'm a freak of nature. Like at least we are all looking at the same chalk board.

Occasionally like tonight, I'm reminded that it's all about hate the sin, love the sinner.

I want to throw up. I want to die. Doesn't anyone understand that?

Jimmer. :rolleyes:

#128693 - 08/23/04 05:47 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
EGL Offline
Moderator Emeritus
Registered: 06/19/04
Posts: 7821
Originally posted by jimrh:
I want to throw up. I want to die. Doesn't anyone understand that?

Jimmer. :rolleyes:
I do. For the first week after I disclosed the abuse to my wife a few months ago, I literally felt like I was constantly going to throw up. On my way to work (which is on a curvy, wooded road), I was looking for suitable places to have an "accident". Luckily, I never got past the looking stage of that, although I feel I was very near it. It was as though I were a condemned man for having exposed my insides so completely, like I had disembowled my soul. For a solid month, I cried every day, several times a day.

My wife still doesn't have a grasp on what's really going on with all this, and I don't know that she ever truly will. But I keep hoping.


#128695 - 08/23/04 03:26 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Aden Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499

If Marc and I can make peace and get along, then there is hope for anything!

You are right, the world is ugly sometimes. I want to lay down, go to sleep and never wake up. Fortunatly, that is going to happen. But not today. Stay with us an maybe you can help us heal. It will be a good mark on your judgment chart when you reach the gates of heaven.


#128696 - 08/23/04 04:01 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
crisispoint Offline

Registered: 09/24/03
Posts: 2154
Loc: Massachusetts

Yes, there is hostility, but it's because we're ALL hurting, ALL dealing with crap we shouldn't have to, all having to get over the self-loathing.

ep, we all hate ourselves, and sometimes it's easier to deal with when we lash out and hate each other.

This is where abuse comes from.

But for all this, this pain, this whacking away AT each other, there IS love and support. Some of us need more of it than others because we're in so much Goddamn pain that we can see Hell from where we are, and it doesn't look that bad

God hates me because I was abused by men. And a part of me (yeah, physical response, but it WAS a response!) liked it. God hates me because I'm attracted to men, that I ACT upon this, that I may be gay or bi, despite LOATHING what was done to me by trickery or force, that I'm persuing relationships with men, that I had sex with married men, that I'm a no-good Goddamn LOSER who was a failure at everything, including being a Goddamn Catholic!

But from some of the guys and gals here, I learned that there are people who understand me, who love me even though I'm a mistake, who accept me even though I'm a freak, and make me see I have a purpose in life and gifts to share even though I'm a screw-up loser.

Hell, even Paul, the Rock, was Saul, the moneylender once.

Jim, there is hope. Yeah, we are a brotherhood who tears into each other, who can hate each other on occasion, but we ARE a brotherhood who shares our pain so it doesn't seem like quite a load anymore. And we share our joys, so we can spread the happiness we SHOULD'VE had all the Hell along as a birthright.

So you hang the heck around, my friend. Contribute. Be the man you are. Fight for what you think is right here. Because this IS ours, and it IS yours, and we are a brotherhood who CAN take control and make this place (and later, the World!) better!

There is an old story from China. And it deals with some of the selfishness you see, and the joy I see. A man asks his priest what Heaven and Hell is like. So the priest helps him to see Hell. It is a place with tables and tables of delicious food, yet the people are suffering and starving because the chopsticks they have are a yard. They cannot POSSIBLY eat, so they starve. Then, the man sees Heaven, and it's EXACTLY the same. Wonderful food, yard-long chopsticks, yet here, the people are happy and well-fed. How can this possibly be, the man wonders, until he sees the difference. In Heaven, the people help feed each other.

This is the place, Jim, where we go from trying to eat with our yard-long chopsticks to helping us feed each other.

Think about it.

Peace and love,


There are reasons I'm taking medication. They're called "other people." - Me, displaying my anti-social tendancies

#128697 - 08/23/04 07:12 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6845
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...

sorry about all the pain you are in, it really is a hard World for anyone, without having to walk around with all the extra baggage, especially as nobody can see the "weight", of all this shit, if you told them, they would all be sooo nice to you, so you don't tell them, let them figure it out, and let them walk all over you, yeh, that's just what they do if you let them.

None of us really are looking for sympathy, sound strange? If we do, then the sympathy I mention above would be the same as in here, we are all by nature individual people, no two are the same.
I will get back to sympathy, I don't want it, nor do you, think about it, would you want everyone sending you sympathy messages all the time?

I don't for one minute think you would, sometimes we cry out, because we are hurting, it can be caused by so many different things, we may even be so unaware of the trigger to the emotion, maybe somethings in here well up inside and you dwell on them, I do, and unconsciously it can provoke or disturb your mind, this is only what I think.

I know that I have read things here, that really stare up some deep emotions, emotions that were locked away, then wow, what hit me! I think the path to survival, because it is done so long in the past, it had to be dealt with systematically by the mind, the mind is very clever indeed, imagine the amount of extra thought processes involved, just to keep you in a capable state of being able to survive, a lot of these are locked away somewhere in our minds, the more that we deal with now, the better it should get.

That is what I think, or just how I reason it, it should be easier to deal with, the older we get, but some things really are ghosts to me, and they show me, why, I am like I am today, We are not as screwed up as we think, if we can try and deal with the big stuff.

I think people on the outside of this really are the screw balls', they need the lesson we can teach them, but who's gonna do it, I won't.
Nobody knows cos nobody tells, if you do tell, they don't know, cos they don't have the capacity to care a shit about it, get the picture?

OK You say you are gay, so what has that got to do with it, here's were God comes into it

Why can't God take it away? Perhaps some are just destined to be punished, it is their future. I am punished because of what happened. God hates me. Don't say he doesn't because it just is so. God hates the freaks.

God doesn't make freaks, we are all his children, we go our own way, he helped you get this far, you already are in the future, know why? Because like me you asked God so many times to take you, but he didn,t, he held your hand and brought you so far.

I think we all need this place far more than we think, we can get over the highest hurdles, if they are in our way, think of the one's behind you? Yes it took a lot of strength and willpower, it may sap your strength now, but you sure have a hell of a lot of it.

Hope this makes sense

take care


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#128698 - 08/23/04 08:53 PM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I sincerely hope you reconsider and decide to stick around. MS is a haven for ALL of us.

The fallout from the last few days is bound to spread itself around and affect many of us.
But we can get over it I'm sure.

Take care Jim, and remember that if you do go, you can always come back.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#128699 - 08/24/04 05:16 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
Kenn Offline

Registered: 07/10/04
Posts: 146
Loc: Toronto, Canada
Call it a coincidence but before I logged in and saw this post I wrote a poem tonight called "This Place". It's not about the MS web-site but about what brings us here...

This Place

When Iím in pain
Thereís this place I go
It seems Iím there
Before I know

Whatís made me move
Inside or out
Makes me scream
With never a shout

Iíd like to yell
Till my throat got hoarse
But it's not likely I will
Being so composed of course

Itís a confusing place
But comfortable too
Being at ease in pain
Iíve become accustomed to

Itís not a pain
ďRate it one to tenĒ
But an ache, a dread
Of what to do when

Pain subsides
Or I get distracted
And start to believe
Iíve over-reacted

My fate unsure
The end unwritten
I could fall in love
Or at least be smitten

But how could I love
When Iíve always questioned
How things could be,
Details not mentioned

A secret between friends
Is safe with me
But a secret pain
Wonít set me free.

"This above all; to thine own self be true."

William Shakespeare, Hamlet

#128700 - 08/24/04 06:38 AM Re: had it with this place!!!!
jimrh Offline

Registered: 03/22/03
Posts: 273
Loc: Roswell, GA
Forgotten or confused for someone else.

You know the value of your worth when you are subliminally or innocently or for whatever reason, are confused for someone else.

You know the value of your post when people react to your post but clearly have not read what you've said.

You know your value to the group when someone takes a neutral, politically correct stance. You know it then when you don't matter at all.

There is much pain here on this site.

Realize however, those of you who think that you matter, that in fact, unless you are part of the wolf pack or the 'brotherhood' don't count.

If I could just find a way to end it so that my daughters can still get my life insurance, I would do it. I've yet to discover that way.

Some day perhaps I will.

Until then, cheers to all!


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