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#126013 - 01/28/04 12:58 AM Re: Chat room closing...
rolling_is_life Offline

Registered: 10/16/02
Posts: 53
Loc: Olympia, Washington
I 2 appologize for my anger getting the best of me. Me and u andrew should talk some time to further work things out.


"Ignoring mortality, we worship mediocrity" -Greg Graffin

"Live fast, die young, leave a great looking corpse" -Ronny Van Zant

#126014 - 01/28/04 01:20 AM Re: Chat room closing...
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
I've edited some posts out, more tonight than I've done since I've been here I think !

I don't like doing it, but the argument isn't between US - like I said in the other topic, we've had enough crap as kids without dishing it out to each other as adults.

So please stick to the story guys, use your enthusiasm to make your arguments and positions stronger.

Andrew and Rolling, Thanks to both of you for calming down. I know this is an emotional subject and it's easy to get wound up, and it's good that you both see that you are actually on the same side.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau

#126015 - 01/28/04 01:57 AM Re: Chat room closing...
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1986
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Thank you President Fred Tolson for replying as soon as you could. Unfortunately, it was not soon enough for some. And thank you Richard Gartner for responding as soon as you came onto the site.

President Fred Tolson, I have some comments on your explaination post. I understand that MaleSurvivor must keep all visitors to the site safe and that we do not have the financial resources to make that happen at this time. I respect the difficult decision you and the board had to make, I may not like the result, but I respect the work you have put into making MaleSurvivor a safe place. In your response, you gave a simple apology for the lack of explaination of the closure. You state that the board has been debating the closure for a year, I assume that you know it is a valuable support resource for many members and guests. Then why was it closed without notice? This question was asked many times by many people, but was not addressed. Can you please respond to the reason in a year you and the board couldn't see the need for an explaination? I know that this whole thing started in the late hours last night and snowballed before you and other board members could reply. When aware of it you began to write a response, yet did not indicate that you were aware of the discourse that was happening on the boards. Why couldn't you have made a small post to let it be known that the response would be coming, rather than having the guests and members stew in there discontent and anger?

These are questions I have asked earlier, and as a member, I do believe I and the others are entitled to a full response.

Now for all you that wish that the chatroom be saved, donate. Help provide the money to get the servers, software, and support to create a safe chatroom that MaleSurvivor can proudly call safe. Donate to the general fund, donate to the other funds to get MaleSurvivor financially sound. Donate to the Legacy Fund to ensure a life-time of financial security. Donate so that MaleSurvivor can expand to include programs that you want added.

Thank you for your consideration,

Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

#126016 - 01/28/04 05:45 AM Re: Chat room closing...
Fred Tolson Offline
Past President

Registered: 01/01/03
Posts: 375
Loc: Denver, CO
OK guys, Iím going to be frank with you.

When I was elected President I believed the future needed to look very different from the past. MS has for years focused upon meeting the needs of all survivors. This was our honeymoon period if you will.

The disaster of last yearís conference was the result of things that none of you are aware of. Regardless of these reasons, this board was culpable because in the end we are responsible for everything MS sponsors.

Well, the honeymoon is over. Difficult decisions, hard work and a different kind of growth lie ahead of us. I am willing to make the difficult decisions and do the work. Having said this, understand that I do NOT make decisions that affect our programs and services by myself. First I am answerable to the Executive Board and then the Board. When someone gives us $5000 or $1 I feel responsible to protect his or her investment in MS.

As I expressed to the board in Minneapolis, I do not expect everyone to agree with my agenda and vision. I told our board I was going to impose financial accountability for our decisions and a different way of thinking about our work.

I read the impassioned pleas, honest skepticism, thoughtful suggestions and misdirected rage of some of the users tonight. One thing you can be assured of and that is MS will grow and prosper. The board of directors may need to make even more painful decisions. I now have learned the importance of providing timely information to our members if and when this should happen again.

I donít know how to be more honest with you than to say my only loyalty is in doing whatever I can to insure our survival. I suspect just about anyone is more qualified to deal with the feelings and needs of our members than me. I am just one of many who have given years to this thing we call MS. Those who know of my efforts understand.

Here is an email I received only today from our ISP.

From: Verio Customer Service
Date: Tue Jan 27, 2004 1:23:00 PM America/Denver
Subject: [] Transfer Notification

Fred Tolson
PMB 103
5505 Connecticut Ave NW
Washington, DC

Dear Webmaster,

Per your request, this is an automated message to inform you that your Web site transfer for this month has reached your notification setting of 6000 MB. If this amount exceeds the allotted data transfer of 10000 MB for this plan type (Silver (FreeBSD)) you will be charged for overages. You should now set new data transfer limits by clicking the "Update Invoice Method" link in your Control Panel or consider upgrading to a plan, which accommodates a higher level of data transfer. Please contact if you have any questions.

Thank you,


Month: January

Userid: malesu
Plan: Silver (FreeBSD)
Web: 6152

Usage: 6152
Over: 152


Well, this is yet another problem that needs to be solved. Do we ask members (again) for financial assistance? Do we do away with more programs? Would anyone even care about the truth or just raise more hell? I am responsible to keep this web site going. Many of us over the years have quietly subsidized MS. We did so because we believe in MS and our mission. Again the honeymoon is over.

MS needs to learn how to pay our own way and if this means a painful growing period then so be it.

You guys have contributed so much of yourselves and I deeply respect you. You take on the many challenges of your personal lives and those you encounter here and you come back every day and do it all over again. Only we who do this can ever appreciate this gift you have given to those who seek us out.

Iím open to solutions that are feasible and grounded in sound business practices. We could lease ChatSpace (our old chat room client) if it is still available as a hosted service. The charges then were approximately $650 annually. I donít know what they are today. Even if we raise this money or someone donates it, the issue of safety is still of concern to the board and myself. I will ask Tom and Steve to help the board draft a program de>

#126017 - 01/28/04 06:19 AM Re: Chat room closing...
James_dup1 Offline

Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
Thank you for this detailed reason. I'll admit I was one of the ones you discribed as having "misdirected rage" for my part in all of this Im truly sorry. I cant even begin to think of what it must be like to try to run this site. I got caught up in the heat of everything. What upset me was the posting with nothing more as to why. And I let that anger over that cloud my good sence. As for leaseing chat space again if that is something that could be worked out in the budget I know me for one would rather have that one back. It was a more user friendly chat program. I think most of the men here would agree that while the chat room is an important part of the support we get here that it is a small part of the work that this site does. So how about instead of saying "permint" you say untill futer notice or something like that. I think the thought of it being gone forever really bugged me. So Fred I am sorry for my part in calling for blood today. I could have handled my part much better and acted like the adult I like to pretend I am ;\) . Is there any way we as a group can have more time to try to brain storm a way to keep the chat open. Maybe till the end of Feb. or something. Just a thought.

I have more issues than Rolling Stone!

#126018 - 01/28/04 06:26 AM Re: Chat room closing...
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192
Thank you Mr. Tolson for your detailed and impassioned explanation.
Obviously we have financial problems. It seems clear to me that we need to have everyone as a paying member. Perhaps we can offer a 30 day free membership and then a fee becomes mandatory for continued us of MS services. Peace, Andrew

there is no courage without anxiety

#126019 - 01/28/04 06:57 AM Re: Chat room closing...
Bill_1965 Offline
Chat Mod Emeritus

Registered: 06/29/03
Posts: 1986
Loc: Flint, Michigan
Thank you Fred for the honesty and candor.


Pain is Temporary; Quitting lasts Forever. - Lance Armstrong

#126020 - 01/28/04 08:18 AM Re: Chat room closing...

Thank you Fred, for the way in which you replied. I appreciate knowing that there is someone who is willing to make these hard decisions for the betterment of the organization.

I am not a member and have chosen not to be, or to donate any money since returning to this site because I had not seen any sort of proper business management until now. I have been in business management for many years and the first thing I thought of when I heard the chat space was closing was, "its obviously money related and the problems that might be associated with it regarding safety are just one reason why this was the service chosen to be cut."

I'm sure that I have as much reason to be upset about this as anyone else, as I've personally used the chat more than any other aspect of this website, but unlike many of the other responses I've seen in this thread, I wanted to post and say thank you.

Thank you for making a decision like that so we don't lose ALL of the services. Thank you for taking the time from your family, from your personal life, as well as your business life, to donate time and energy to this site as well as to everything that MS is endeavoring to represent.

Perhaps with this vision you have for the future of MS, as well as the steps that the entire board will be taking to support that future, more people like myself may be more inclined to put financial and other support into this organization.

Keep up the good work.


#126021 - 01/28/04 09:58 AM Re: Chat room closing...
markgreyblue Offline

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
i am anxious to give ideas for non-profit fund raising -
i would be willing to go to foundations, corporations, and individuals for grants or donations although this is not my area of expertise - but -

I would have a vested interest in pursuing this goal -

please let me know -
(as non- attractive and mood spliting as this sounds perhaps pharmeceutical ad banners might be an option as well?--gross though)

" not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous

#126022 - 01/28/04 02:45 PM Re: Chat room closing...
michael Joseph Offline

Registered: 03/11/01
Posts: 2719
Loc: Virginia
I havent been posting very much, but I feel the chat room has provided a way for us to comunicate. If it is done away with this place will not be the same, and we will have to go to yahoo or msn and have conferences.

If this does happen, there will be less action at this sight and it will bite them in the butt.
There is no way this can be a good thing. I hope things change for the good of the sight, there are many men here I consider friends.


Standing together is so much better than hiding in the dark.
***I am a three time WoR Retreat Alumni***
The Round Table, Men's CSA Group, Monday 7:30pm CST, MaleSurvivor Chat

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