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#122786 - 12/26/04 03:51 AM Real, if not useful suggestions.
Aden Offline

Registered: 07/05/04
Posts: 499
Ivanhoe started a very important thread. It is not my intention to hijack his good work, for which he deserves much thanks, but to repair our course of thought and begin a discussion of real actions. These are specific suggestions, unrelated to personal complaints, intended to assist the MS Administration in understanding our needs from them and the Moderators. If this seems pompous, I apologize in advance. Its only meant to be helpful.

In the recent turmoil that erupted here, there are several issues evident. Abuse of trust, expressions of hostility, multiple screen names, manipulative self-editing and simple misunderstanding.

The main question which has come out of discussing these issues has been: “What is the role of the Moderators in controlling these factors?”

For this to remain a viable forum for the exchange of thought and helpful observations that role must necessarily be limited. They can be relieved of some of their responsibility by the inclusion of a “must check to proceed” disclaimer before posting privileges are allowed. It should include specific language concerning what the Moderators will and will not do to settle disagreements. It should spell out unacceptable behavior and the steps that will be taken to correct that behavior. And it should recommend a set of rules for self protection against lurking abusers.

The Moderators should be endowed with “absolute” temporary editing power, with mandatory review by committee. The edited individual must be immediately notified of the editors rational, given recourse to private rebuttal, and the editors record of editing should be under frequent review by his peers and open to discussion with Administration by concerned members.

Self-editing should be subject to authorization. The intent of the edit and its affect on subsequent posts should be taken into consideration.

Private Messages should be viewable by Administrators upon request from the recipient.

In any dispute that erupts before the Moderators can gain control, their intercession should be guided by concepts of justice rather than peace. Members will perceive safety in righteous action rather than in dead calm. Misunderstandings can be reasonably moderated among caring people, but abuse must be met head on with solid action. That is, after all, what we are about.

These suggestions are just an outline of my own thought in this matter. There is no demand or expectation intended. We need help, and this is how I feel about the help we need.


#122787 - 12/26/04 10:19 AM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
Ivanhoe Offline

Registered: 03/19/03
Posts: 1907
Good suggestions, Aden. I'm sure you'll be hearing from some of the other mods, as well as some of those members who also care about this site.
Your care and consideration for this site is more than appreciated, thank you.


"No soul is desolate as long as there is a human being for whom it can feel trust and reverence."
George Eliot

#122788 - 12/26/04 10:57 AM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
James_dup1 Offline

Registered: 04/13/02
Posts: 1332
Loc: Wyoming
You have given this a lot of thought. Great idea's there. Thanks.


I have more issues than Rolling Stone!

#122789 - 12/26/04 05:13 PM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
Andrew Offline
Moderator Emeritus

Registered: 07/25/03
Posts: 1192

In any dispute that erupts before the Moderators can gain control, their intercession should be guided by concepts of justice rather than peace. Members will perceive safety in righteous action rather than in dead calm.
I couldn't have said it better. I am in full support of this principle. Moderators and administrators please take note!
Peace, Andrew

there is no courage without anxiety

#122790 - 12/26/04 06:05 PM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
reality2k4 Offline

Registered: 07/06/04
Posts: 6841
Loc: Stuck between water, air, and ...
Thanks for the ideas, maybe something can be drawn up. Personally, I edit my posts, not to take out anything I may have regretted, but rather, to edit grammar or mistake. I have also deleted posts, if the original author of the thread wanted, something I should have noted when deleting, but sometimes I don't think of the consequences.

It really dismays me, the lack of trust that has built up over the last 6 months or so, it gives me a certain distrust also.

Let us say goodbye to the battle ground and hello to a better new year for all,


Whoever stole the Sun, put it back and we'll drop all the charges!

#122791 - 12/26/04 08:01 PM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
FLRich Offline

Registered: 06/21/04
Posts: 1404
Couldn't have said it better, ste!

#122792 - 12/26/04 08:22 PM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
markgreyblue Offline

Registered: 12/19/03
Posts: 5400
Loc: Pasadena, CA
nice one aden - good ideas!

" not look outside yourself for the leader."
-wisdom of the hopi elders

"...the sign of a true leader is service..." - anonymous

#122793 - 12/27/04 01:55 AM Re: Real, if not useful suggestions.
Lloydy Offline
Administrator Emeritus
Registered: 04/17/02
Posts: 7071
Loc: England Shropshire
In any dispute that erupts before the Moderators can gain control, their intercession should be guided by concepts of justice rather than peace. Members will perceive safety in righteous action rather than in dead calm.
It's what we try to do.

We don't expect 'dead calm' here, and we certainly wouldn't want it, we have to discuss things and if it doesn't always go our way then so be it ( that's 'go our way' as a personal viewpoint )

We try very hard to keep our decision justified and fair. But unfortunately we also have to work behind the scenes so you guys don't always see the full picture, or appreciate the speed that can be so influential in those decisions.

Some problems flare up instantly and become a full on riot before the Mod's have even got out of bed. All we can do then is break up the fight and restore order, and confidence, once again.
But some problems drag on for months and become so complicated and spread out amongst the membership that in order to be fair we have to see the issue through to the end before we can act with certainty.
Inevitably some news of our actions will surface, and lead some people to jump to conclusions.
Then we're faced with the problem of rumour control, which is a nightmare. And I'm NOT complaining about the members here, it's the nature of being online that makes moderating so difficult.

If it was a huge group therapy, we could get everyone into one room and bang a few heads together if that was what was needed. Here we have to take things slowly and carefully.

We stand very close to the line of being thought of as acting in an over zealous manner, being unfair, having favourites, and generally being biased.
Which is why your point is so important.

Justice and peace MUST go hand in hand.


Go confidently in the direction of your dreams! Live the life you've imagined. As you simplify your life, the laws of the universe will be simpler.
Henry David Thoreau


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